Seat belts and motorhomes / camper vans

Jet

Can anyone point me in the direction of the law on seat belts in camper vans?

Is it illegal for a 11 year old child to be carried in the back of a camper van in a seat with no seat belt if all the other seat belts have been taken by other passengers?

thanks.

MX5huggy

It's complicated

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/faqs.shtml#seatbelts

I would want the youngest person to have the belts.

Jet

I'd found that information and can't work it out.

The motorhome in question is a W reg, so registered around the year 2000.

I think I'm right in assuming that if there isn't a seat belt available, he doesn't have to wear one?

Does it not make a difference if the passenger is a child?

My ex has been carrying our son around unrestrained again after me asking him twice not to. His girlfriend gets a seat belt but not our son.

mikey72

When you say he's 11, it's depends on when he's 12, as the existing rules change dependent on age.
There is also another change in the actual rules in May.
Look at
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/aboutria/ria/amendmenttotheseatbeltwearin5501?page=1
para 14
"- that, from May 2009 (and not earlier), in vehicles where seat belts are provided, the number of passengers carried may not exceed the number of seat belts or child restraints provided."

It's retrospective, so while it's ok, (but stupid) at the moment, from May it won't be.
However as he's 11 he should wear a seatbelt where available, so she should be in the back until he's 12 anyway.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/child/aryseatbeltwearingrequir4636.pdf

There is an interpretation from May that if no belts are fitted in just the rear, none need to be, but if any are fitted, all passengers need them. Other interpretations include the cab seats though.
For my own part, I have fitted lap belts in the rear of my van years ago, one kid travels in the cab, two in the back with belts, and my wife who hasn't a belt.
From May I need to fit one for her, even though she's in a rear facing seat.

MX5huggy

Thats ambigious, does that mean that I cant ride in back of a car with no seat belts in theback? so my 4 seater classic become only a 2 seater. but my 4 seater vintage with no seat belts at all I can continue to carry 4 people?

mikey72

MX5huggy wrote: »

Thats ambigious, does that mean that I cant ride in back of a car with no seat belts in theback? so my 4 seater classic become only a 2 seater. but my 4 seater vintage with no seat belts at all I can continue to carry 4 people?

Yes
"23. More significantly, however, those who currently need to carry more adults and children than there are seat belts (such as large families) will be required from 2009 to use a larger or second vehicle. We cannot reliably estimate how many people or vehicles this will affect but it could have significant financial implications if a standard saloon car had to be changed for a "people carrier". However, these vehicles have been available for several years now and are available second-hand."

Not been well publicised has it?
I only know as I've a motorhome affected, and it's been a favourite topic on there.
If you have an older car without a lap belt in the middle, it's a four seater soon.

Jet

My son is 12 next March. So at the moment, until May, he should be sitting in the front seat with a seat belt and any adults should be sitting in an unrestrained seat and that will be legal? Obviously there is a concern about an adult sitting unrestrained behind a child in the front with a seat belt on.

And from May onwards it will be illegal for him to transport more people than there are seat belts? Regardless of age.

mikey72

Yes to the first bit.
Maybe to the second. It's open to interpretation.
If you include the belted seats in the cab, yes, but if you only count the conversion seat belts, if there are none fitted, then he is ok to travel unless some seats in the back have them, then they all should if they carry people in them. Common sense would say the cab should be included, but it's down to the actual wording.
I have fitted some to two of the rear seats so I fall foul either way.

Jet

mikey72 wrote: »

Yes to the first bit.
Maybe to the second. It's open to interpretation.
If you include the belted seats in the cab, yes, but if you only count the conversion seat belts, if there are none fitted, then he is ok to travel unless some seats in the back have them, then they all should if they carry people in them. Common sense would say the cab should be included, but it's down to the actual wording.
I have fitted some to two of the rear seats so I fall foul either way.

I'm confused. The motorhome has 2 seat belts for driver and front passenger and 2 seat belts in the back for 2 front facing seats. There are 2 rear facing seats and several other seats at the back (rear and side facing) all with no seat belts.

MX5huggy

Jet is the child in question still under 135cm tall?

mikey72

So there are 4 seat belts in all, and three people in the van.
Do you mean he just doesn't wear a selt belt?
Not that there aren't any fitted for him.