HELP Debit card Fraud advice required

rystjest

Hi all

can anyone offer advise. I have lost/stolen my visa debit card with alliance ans leicester. It was used to withdraw cash from an ATM and make purchases to the value of £2500 over a 24 hour period. They even went into a branch of Alliance and Leicester and withdrew £500. I contacted A&L the moment i noticed the loss/fraudulent use. I filled in the required unathorised use claim form and sent it off, only to be tld this week that they will only credit into my account the £500 that was taken fron the bank branch, all other tranaction that used my PIN will not be creditied. can anyone advise who i can cntact to try and recover my loss.

thanks stuart

McKneff

Did yu have your pin number with your card. If so, its in your terms and conditions that you must not disclose your pin number to anyone or keep it with your card because they will hold you responsible for any losses.
sorry, dont think you can do much if the thief had your pin number.

carlos1973

I work in retail security for a major supermarket.
What or where was the fraudulent use? Was it online or somewhere that allowed the card to be signed for?
IMO there should be some form of 'trail' and A&L should be able able to tell you exactly where and when the transactions took place. They should also advise you to contact the police, especially in light of the amount involved.
From there you can trace the transactions, Till records cctv etc, atm cameras. Time is the crucial factor here as dependant on the security systems used the cctv footage may be recorded over.
Bear in mind that even if you know your card was used in store xxx at xxx time you will not be allowed to request the cctv yourself as it is covered by the data protection act and can only be requested by the police.

James

According to the Banking Code article 12.12 which says:

Unless we can show that you have acted fraudulently or without resonable care, your liabilit for your card being misused will be limited as follows.

If someone else uses your card, before you tell us it has been losr or stolen or that someone else knows your PIN, the most you will have to pay is £50.

That would sound like the good news. I hope in your case it is.

What I'd do now is first of all report this to the police and get a crime reference or incident number.

I'd then write to the A&L, saying that you are (if the is the case) the only person who knows your PIN and you are careful with it at all times. Include the Crime Reference Number.

Ask them to put it in writing that you've either acted fraudulent or without reasonable care with your PIN.

Send your letter recorded, and keep a copy.

Consider going to the press.



Banking Code Click Here.

What you are up against:

BBC's Watchdog You Tube (Click here) The Banking Code & The Burden of Proof.

Recent Cases in th Press:

Why Won't ABBEY Refund Card Fraud?

LLOYDS make customer liable for theft from her account.

Good luck Stuart - I've send to you PM.

RobertoMoir

rystjest wrote: »

Hi all

can anyone offer advise. I have lost/stolen my visa debit card with alliance ans leicester. It was used to withdraw cash from an ATM and make purchases to the value of £2500 over a 24 hour period. They even went into a branch of Alliance and Leicester and withdrew £500. I contacted A&L the moment i noticed the loss/fraudulent use. I filled in the required unathorised use claim form and sent it off, only to be tld this week that they will only credit into my account the £500 that was taken fron the bank branch, all other tranaction that used my PIN will not be creditied. can anyone advise who i can cntact to try and recover my loss.

thanks stuart

How did they know your PIN?

jonesMUFCforever

You would be amazed how many people 1) let friends and families use their card with chip and pin and 2) when asked to enter their pin go into their card wallet and pull out a little bit of paper with the number on!

rystjest

Hi Roberto
I do not knw how they got hold of the PIN, I have had the same card PIN for 5 years it is not something i need to write down anywhere

Stu

carlos1973

Card cloners will also read the chip and get the pin that way. So much for increased security!
I know of one scam that used fake registration plates, forged documents for hire vehicles and cloned bank cards to drive hundreds of miles to fill transit vans and petrol containers with diesel!
Thieves and scammers will always be one step ahead of honest god-fearing folk, that is how they can get away with.
Also isn't it great to see Barclaycard take a step backwards with their contactless technology.

Extant

carlos1973 wrote: »

Card cloners will also read the chip and get the pin that way. So much for increased security!

You can't read a PIN off a Chip.

Also isn't it great to see Barclaycard take a step backwards with their contactless technology.

Visa payWave technology is perfectly secure: it is limited to £10 per transaction, and required to authenticate with a PIN every so many transactions.

Beyond that, it is useless - you can't read the card out of someone's pocket, you can't get the full card details from it, etc.

carlos1973

BarclaysManager, If I lose my any of my current cards and someone finds them they can't be used as they have to authorised with the pin not a signature, also I don't write pins down and have different pins for each card. How many transactions could a contactless card be used for before a pin is asked for? Surely its feasible for a card to be found and have several transactions for less than £10 before it is stopped or a pin requested. That is the main reason why I am dubious about them and see them as a backwood step.
Incidentally, I work in retail security and I am aware of the numerous ways that cards can be cloned, skimmed etc. but not willing to discuss in an open forum.

James

BarclaysManager wrote: »

You can't read a PIN off a Chip.

Presmumably you can't read a PIN of a Chip BUT what crooks do is swipe Chip & PIN machines (Pin Entry Devices) and doctor them to recover both the card details AND the PIN.

As you are well aware there are lots of ways of capturing PINs. When this happens we're seeing more and more cases in these forums of victims of PIN based fraud picking up the cost.

There are ways of reducing the risk to you where PINs are concerned.

The first is to make sure your CREDIT CARDS, are Chip & Signature.

The second is to use only one card with a PIN. Preferably one that doesn't have a Visa, MasterCard etc Logs. For example a banks own savings card for your cash withdrawals?

Transfer money into and out of this account on-line when you need it. This way you have access to ATM's (in UK only) and the Banks own savings card can't be used with a PIN in shops.

Just picked this up:

The Financial Ombudsman Service, which handles consumer complaints against banks, now deals with about 125 cases a month of customers locked in disputes over PIN fraud.

Article click here (Legal Challenge by Victim)