'Should Assisted Suicide be allowed?' poll discussion

ceridwen

well...I've read that linked article earlier...and I see the point....and actually I definitely DO NOT like the attitude of that Dignitas Clinic one tiny bit. They are in it for all the wrong reasons as far as I can see. Unfortunately - they are pretty much the only option open to a lot of people the way things stand at present.

I do sympathise very much with the poster earlier who had to watch a much-loved grandparent go through so much illness because of this series of strokes she had. They also suffer who only stand and watch - and that is not taken nearly enough into account in discussion on this. It is very upsetting for the "watchers" too - if, obviously, not nearly as much as for the ill person themselves.

Quite frankly - I think it is terribly intrusive to expect someone who has had to decide that suicide (assisted or otherwise) is their only option to "justify" their decision. It is THEIR decision and THEIR decision only. We all have moments where we could "chuck in the towel" so to say - but if someone/anyone has held to that view consistently for a reasonable period of time (for whatever reason) then that is entirely up to them and them alone. It is our bodies and our lives - so it is our decision.

RRatchet

I worked in a pallitive care unit for 8 months as a glorified cleaner (we made toast & tea as well as cleaning) aka a Domestic and whilst this in no way qualifies me to have a medical point of veiw, it is amazing what you pick up by overhearing and observing (nobody minds the skivvy). These units are by no means always depressing places but there were plenty of examples of suffering. It appears that there is no way of controlling very severe pain without making a person unconcious. Eg you can be in pain and lucid or not in pain and out of your face on morphine, neither state meets my idea of a good quality of life. Also it was routine for patients to be given higher doses of morphine to control pain but with the side effect of hastening death. I saw one patient die on a 4 bedded ward, just after his wife had fled from the ward in distress at his death gasps. No nurses were in attendance only me and the other 3 patients. Another patient was in agony and everyone heard him crying out in pain and distress for about a week until he allowed administration of a high dose of morphine to kill the pain and him in 3 days. Others were mentally traumatised and/or depressed. also some were the cheeriest people I've met.

Whatever a person wants should be allowed whether it be being assisted to die or to receive good hospice/pallitive care.

I would assist my nearest and dearest if asked and to hell with the legal consequences.

I would also seriously consider going to Switzerland if the need arose.

I also think that any doctor should not be compelled to assist.

The medical profession & polititions should also be totally honest about the process of dying and not gloss over it. I'ts natural but it's not pretty. More honesty about the double effects of pain relief and that "assisted" dying already takes place covertly and also by withdrawal of treatment.

tiamai_d

I'm wondering if it would have to be similar to the donar register.

You would have to fill out a form when you are fit and healthy saying under what conditions you would prefere assised suicide or euthinasia etc.

Very touchy subject, but personally, if I were at the end of my days and in severe pain, I wouldn't want my family to see me like that nor would I want to live.

ceridwen

A good contribution RRatchet - though you werent "medical" staff in those circumstances - then nevertheless I think you are well qualified to make a judgement on these matters from what you have seen.

Your comment about it being impossible to deal with pain and remain lucid on the one hand and Jade Goody's comments about the amount of pain she was feeling come the end on the other hand certainly give food for thought.

I have always assumed that because I am intelligent/articulate etc then that was something I don't have to worry about personally - because I would know about and demand the best possible pain relief Society has available should I ever need it. Problem sorted - just a matter of sorting out my paperwork and preparing myself mentally for things.

If it is indeed the case that there would be no way even for a well-informed person who would certainly "fight their corner" hard to ensure that they were free of pain - then it makes it vital that people have access to "assisted suicide" from suitably-qualified personnel here in Britain should we need it.

I'm not going to join in the comments about Jade Goody - but what IS the case is that she has managed to raise consciousness about this subject and stop it being so taboo to discuss it.

aurora_borealis_2

RRatchet's experience of palliative care certainly doesn't match mine and I've been in dozens of units.

I'd be very interested to know exactly which one this was.

esuhl

Errata wrote: »

So who are these angels of death that will pass the pills to the dying to die teenager/young mum/neurotic ? Their relatives? Doubtful. Medical and nursing staff? Unfair.
I wonder if anyone who's all for assisted suicide would be happy to pass the pills to their beloved and still young parent or teenager.

Aldahbra wrote: »

Yes, I would, I watched my Grandmother have stroke after stroke over a period of years...

Would I have passed her the pills. Oh yes, like a shot... What our "caring Society" inflictecd on her is inexcusable however you look at it.

And so would I. My father died at a relatively young age. For some unforgivable reason the hospital gave him chemotherapy before they had made a diagnosis. Shortly afterwards they discovered that, for someone with his condition, chemotherapy was the opposite of what he needed; guaranteed to be fatal, in fact. I watched him die slowly and painfully over the following weeks.

In these particular circumstances, I don't think I would have assisted my father in committing suicide due to the relatively short time-frame and the availability of tranquilisers and morphine. If he had suffered for months or years, as many people do, I would have absolutely no moral problems with assisting his suicide, if he made the choice.

The alternative would be to say "I know you have no quality of life, can't eat, breathe properly, are in constant pain, and have no chance of recovery. But I want you to stay like this for as long as possible."

How could anyone want to do this to a loved one?

I'm sure many people (possibly including myself) might not be able to carry out the act when it comes to it. I'm pretty sure I could never suffocate anyone, though I hope I could pass them some pills or flick a switch on a drip if necessary.

When it comes to it, I'd rather be an "angel of death" than an "angel of suffering".

teddyco

Per the Times article, Patricia Hewitt is not arguing from an angle of saving money in the NHS, but about the general rules surrounding the legality of euthanasia in Britain.

So how does this subject have anything to do with 'money saving'?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5943491.ece

"Ms Hewitt, who was Health Secretary for two years in Tony Blair's government, said: “In the long term, we need a Bill to change the law to allow terminally ill, mentally competent adults suffering at the end of their lives the choice of an assisted death, within safeguards, in this country."

This poll has a whole bunch of folks chasing each other 'around the Mulberry bush'.

mishanmerlin

My mother was diagnosed with cancer and the first pain relief she was offered (previously she took two paracetamol at night)was end stage morphine.

My mother - in -law also diagnosed with cancer was given no assistance not even sleeping pills for two nights sleep (her cancer had spread throughout including her brain).

Thing in common the same doctor. He is known locally as the doctor who buries his mistakes.

THere are good doctors who oversee excellent pallative care and then there are those of the dr shipham ilk. How do we know??? How do we judge????

Doctors are no the only ones with moral dilemmas you know how de we as families respond to the dying pleas of loved ones?

jud!th

suicide is always a mental health issue

dizzie

I agree that the question of whether to persevere with life, or to die should have nothing to do with economics. Neither should it have anything to do with anyone other than the person who is considering the choice for themselves.

Good palliative care is a wonderful thing, but who is qualified to decide whether the patient is in distress or not? Surely, it is the patient themselves. Under the current situation, those who take their own lives invariably die on their own, and at a point at which they are still capable of commiting the act.

I have two points: First, and ironically, assisted suicide may actually prolong some lives. People with progressive conditions would be able to wait until their condition reached a level at which they would not be capable of the act of suicide by themselves. At this point, if the palliative care they receive, alleviates their suffering, then they may not chose the option of suicide. As the situation stands, some people may be choosing to end their lives very prematurely (when they can do so, unassisted)...simply because of the fear of suffering and the unknown.

My second point is that if a member of my family developed an illness that caused so much fear and suffering that they had taken the decision to commit suicide, I'd like to have the option of being there for them. It is natural to want to hold on to those you love, and I admit that there would have to be a very serious situation for me not to desperately try to talk them out of it. But, if they were adamant about their decision, I'd want to be there to hold their hands, to have the chance to say goodbye and offer some support/comfort in their final moments