Car Clamp HELP NEEDED PLEASE .. Castle Car Park Windsor

Howard13

The Castle Car Park is notorious. Ther are 3 pages of messages on theroyalwindsorforum website (topic/429).

At least 12 motorists returned to their cars on 24 June 2009 to find their cars had been clamped. Earlier on arrival at the car park they had discovered that the ticket machines were unusable and were unable to obtain tickets to display in their cars. Apparently there were identical circumstances on October 2 so this could be a scam.

Police were called to the scene after threats to delay release by 2 hours were made by the wheelclampers after photographs were being taken to provide evidence that it was not just a coincidence that so many many drivers had been caught out. Unfortunately the police advised that they were powerless to act on private land (despite the threatening behaviour) and suggested following the Parking Control Management (UK) Limited formal appeal procedure. However one of the police officers did provide his ID and indicated he would be prepared to cooperate with any subsequent enquiry. The release fee was £120 or £125 by credit card.

So far the appeals procedure has returned a refusal to refund. Next step is a letter to the PCM Director and land owner(s) [if I can obtain the latter's name(s) and address(es)] warning of County Court action if they do not refund.

Howard13

Sorry for the typo above. The night of the multiple wheel clamping was 24 March 2009 i.e. last month not June.

headpin

RichardJW1 wrote: »

Paranoid,

This is purely an hypothetical questiion but how does the law work if by some way you manage to remove the wheel clamp?........let's say with bolt cutters to remove the padlock.....I'm not trying to be smart or suggest that's the way it could be done but just interested in where they draw the line and what the likely outcome would be.

If someone 'attaches' something to your car then surely you have now taken legal possesion of it and therefore up to you what you do.

Legally this would be criminal damage. However, for a conviction to be obtained the identity of the person commiting the criminal damage (i.e. in this case cutting off the clamp or the padlock) would need to be established beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is nobody around to identify you and no CCTV etc then the chances of obtaining a conviction are pretty remote.

I susoect the clampers would try the usual trick of attempting to get the registered keeper of the vehicle to admit liability and pay up. However, the usual advice would apply. Say nothing and admit to nothing. The burden of proof is not yours to deny but theirs to demonstrate.

headpin

Paranoid wrote: »

Dear Mel
I'm not a lawyer but I have spent nearly two years succesfully fighting a clamping company and the owners of the land on which they are (were) allowed to lucratively terrorise motorists.

The grounds for "legal" clamping and towing away have been laid down in Case Law and are:-

1. Warning signs must be displayed where a reasonable person is bound to see them - like at the entrance to the car park.
2. The release fee must be reasonable (???)
3. Arrangements must be in place for prompt release of the vehicle once the motorist has agreed to pay.

(1) is probably the only useful point. Don't even think about using a ticket bought by another motorist. Invariably they are not transferable and at best you will just lose all credibility.

By allowing the clampers to operate on the property the owners are also liable as they have legally entered into a contract (doesn't have to be written). Many landowners do have a genuine problem with parking and are possibly quite reasonable, unlike villainous profiteering clampers. If the landowner has instructed the clampers to follow certain guide lines and the clampers have failed to do so they are in breach.

It's an intersting variation on the usual legal extortion that it takes place in a pay and display car park. I would be interested to know just what the signs say.

Scotland got it right - making clamping illegal!

Ask more if you want. Good luck.

What you also fail to indicate is that for “clamping” to comply with the law the “Warning Signs” must also contain certain prescribed information including the name of the enforcing (parking) company, their address (usually a PO Box!!) and a telephone number where arrangements for the release of the vehicle can be arranged. Additionally, the actual person performing the clamping operation must be SIA Registered. The clamper must include on the “clamping ticket” and the subsequent receipt details of their SIA registration number (this can be checked on line). Without this information the company and the actual clamper in person are commiting a criminal offence and the police should be asked to attend. The problem is that most police officers are completely ignorant of the law in this respect and will trot out their usual stock answer that: “this is a Civil matter and we cannot intervene” B*llox, it is a criminal matter in this circumstance and it's their duty to intervene and apply the law.

However, I will say that most clamping operations know the law and will usually comply with these provsions. But, if they are not and you get clamped call the police. If they will not intervene, take the officers details (assuming he's wearing his shoulder number) and say that you will be reporting him and also claiming from his force all of the loss and expense that you incur due to his dilatory approach to his lawful duty.

spoonani

Headpin, that's rubbish, could you explain what criminal offence the clampers are committing? I agree that Scotland got it right but the police will correctly say its a civil dispute and advise accordingly

headpin

spoonani wrote: »

Headpin, that's rubbish, could you explain what criminal offence the clampers are committing? I agree that Scotland got it right but the police will correctly say its a civil dispute and advise accordingly

Look at the provisions relating to clampers, their employers, the landowner and the licencing provisions as contained within the Private Security Industry Act 2001.You can also look at the commencement orders and SIA guidance. You will see that contraventions by the clamper, etc are all subject to criminal convictions and are not Civil matters.

Do not get confused with the actual act of clamping which is a civil matter. I am talking about the procedures and process that must be followed to ensure that it is lawful for the actual act of clamping to occur.

spoonani

I stand corrected, although having read the legislation, it is apparent that any offences would be enforced by the SIA/local authority rather than the police.

Paranoid

RichardJW1 wrote: »

Paranoid,

RichardJW1

If someone 'attaches' something to your car then surely you have now taken legal possesion of it and therefore up to you what you do.

You would be acting illegally. Probably criminal damage. It would be a good idea, if you went down this path, to be aware of any infringements of the regulations (such as they are!) by the clampers.

I couldn't possibly condone it, but if you cut of the clamp AND disposed of it I imagine it would be up to the clampers to prove it was you...!

In Scotland clamping a car was ruled as a trespass on the vehicle and the practice stopped.

The Home Office have announced a consultation on vehicle clamping which is open for submissions until 23rd July 2009. Have your say please.

pretendgolfer

I got done last night by this lot. My first time. I arrived at the car park without change, so spoke to the guy in the change booth who directed me to the nearest cash machine. I managed to get there and back without getting a ticket, and paid £6 for 3hours!!

When I returned to my car at 22.55 I had been clamped. My ticket had expired at 22.33 an the notice said i was clamped at 22.48 (surprisingly bang on 15 minutes after the ticket expired). I must admit I had completely forgotten about the return time with it being so late.

Before I could even figure out what I had to do to get the clamp off, I was approached by the 2 clampees as they got out of their van with their wireless credit card machine - sat waiting for the return of their prey, they had probably only just sat back down.

Left with no other choice I paid the £125 by credit card, with a mind to appeal afterwards as I did not want to risk the amount increasing any further.

Ok - I was late, but I can't help feeling it is a little extortianate being as I had already paid £6 for the pleasure of 3 hours parking which in itslef is a rip off to be charging until midnight.

Anybody ever get anything back sucessfully from this mob?
I'm tempted to appeal purely on the principle :mad:

worried_jim

may i sugest-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Makita-Cordless-Angle-Grinder_W0QQitemZ110384923464QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item110384923464&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

beat the crooks at there own game.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/3112670.stm