FTB disaster - advice please!

chem14346777

Hello fellow money savers!

I'm sorry for such a big thread, but I really do need to explain all this to you in order to get your opinions.

I'll start at the beginning, bear with me...

my gf is currently 7 months pregnant. We have always rented up until now, and before christmas we decided that we should really jump on the property ladder as soon as possible. We found a nice 3 bed semi that suited our needs to the ground-- it needed a new kitchen and bathroom, and GCH. I'm confident that I would be able to do most of the work myself, with help from friends and my old man where needed.

we put in an offer on the house, which was quickly accepted. after a couple more viewings for measuring up and things, we had met the seller and said how eager we were to move in and get things sorted quickly, and she seemed
very eager to sell. She had seperated from the guy she shared the house with, and was now living with another guy. In addition to this, the house had been on the market already for 6-7 months, after the original buyer pulled out at the last minute (or so we were told).

We agreed a completion date of around Feb 10th, which was agreed. We handed in our notice for where we were living, and it would run out on Feb 14th.

towards the end of January all the searches had been completed, and we went to our conveyancer to sign contracts and things. We explaining how eager we were to move in to the conveyancer and she said that she couldn't see any reason we couldn't actually complete the week before, on the 3rd, and she just needed to get a couple of redemption figures for outstanding debts on the house.

when she said this, as a first time buyer, alarm bells started to ring, so I asked for further details, but she assured me that there was nothing to worry about, it was all standard practice and it was just a matter of finding out who was owed what, and ensuring that these debts were paid off before giving the seller the remaining chunk of cash.

as the 3rd got nearer, we had heard nothing from the conveyancer, so I started to call them up to ensure everything was fine. No Problems, we were told, just waiting on a final redemption figure. So I kept phoning, and 2 days
before we were told they were still waiting for 1 final figure from the sellers solicitors, and also that they still had stuff to move from the house and that they must still be living there. I advised this was not the case, there were only a couple of waredrobes left behind. finally we were told that it probably wouldn't complete till the 10th, as originally planned. I was half expecting this anyway, so I left it at that.

So, the next week we kept bugging them for updates, and our conveyancer was always trying to get this final figure. by Wednesday we were starting to seriously worry, and our conveyancer said that the seller needed a few extra days as they still had stuff to move from the house and that they must still be living there. I assured her once again that they were not, and there were just a couple of waredrobes left behind, which, ultimately we could store or move for the seller if need be (after all, we already had a van booked, etc, so wasn't a problem), and that we HAD to move that weekend, as we would ultimately be homeless otherwise. I then called the estate agents and advised them of the situation (they had the 10th down for completion too), they managed to speak to the seller who said OK, they would collect the waredrobes on Saturday and complete on Friday.

"Phew", we thought.

so we started harrassing the conveyancer again the next day (9th), who started talking about this final redemption figure again, which had still not been disclosed. towards the end of the day they called and said, basically "don't bank on it." that there were "currently unresolvable issues", and it would very likely not complete on Friday, and they didn't know when it would be sorted.

So we kept calling them on Friday, looking for updates, trying to get an idea of what was happening, but no-one would give anything away. We assumed that the problem lay with the seller and her partner disagreeing on something (we got the impression early on that the split was not amicable). We pushed for a date when it would be sorted and were given little in the way of an answer.

Monday came, and so we were on the phone again, and out conveyancer finally gave us a bit of a heads up. Basically the debt tied up in the property was more than the actual selling price. This needed to be resolved before anytihng happened.

SO, they bought the property from the council for just under £60k in 2003 (I THINK, this is all from memory), it was listed at 110k, and we offered 105k .. so they had somehow secured nearly 50k worth of debts on the house.

This left us homeless and with a flat full of furniture, and no-where to put it, and 3 months away from a baby. Now, I know we shouldn't have handed in our notice so quickly, but we did so thinking we were saving on a months rent, rather than it costing us so dearly! We got another place to rent quick sharp, and managed to extend our existing tenancy for a week- just long enough to get sorted.

so chapter 2 begins.

we never actually pulled out of the original purchase, although we had threatened to unless it completed on the 10th. I mean, why should we pull out when a) we still wanted it and b) the reason it never went through wasn't our doing.

we're now all moved and settled again, though living in a rented house when really we wanted a place to call our own.

Because the place we were buying was originally a council house, and the seller was selling within the 3 (or 5?) year period after this, the seller was liable to pay a % back to the council upon selling it. we knew that this figure
would drop in may, and so asked the conveyancer to ask the seller if they would consider selling it then, and, after "going dark" for a few weeks, our conveyancer has finally got in touch with them and everyone agreed that this is a definate way forward.

SO, my questions to you all:

1) Who was in the wrong here? was it purely the seller, I mean, SURELY someone knew about all these debts??

2) shouldn't my conveyancer have picked up on this long before they did?

3) do I still go ahead in May? the Conveyancer is willing to exchange contracts tomorrow (or whenever) if we wish, so we would like to find a more competative mortgage (we were originally taking a 100% interest only, but with all the cash we've saved over the past couple of months can now afford the 5% deposit), and go for it -- should we? there are simply NO other properties similar to this for this kind of money now, as house prices have shot up in the area.

4) if we do go ahead, should we exchange contracts ASAP, or bide our time?

5) the house will have been standing empty for nearly a year by the time we move in-- what issues will this bring? (thinking water pipes, etc)

6) if we DID exchange contracts and, say, someone went buy and smashed all the windows, or the roof fell off, who would be liable for this? obviously we need insurance for the mortgage, so would this generally cover these things?


Thanks for sticking with me, I know its a long read, but we would be really grateful for your thoughts

bodgery

Had it been me, I'd have blown my top at my conveyancer. Why on earth did they keep you in the dark for so long? Either they didn't ask the right questions early enough, didn't push hard enough on your behalf, or (patronisingly) kept you at arms length. Either way, a very poor job done. My solicitor was fantastic during our 3 previous house purchases - always phoned me at each stage or when new information was available.

Anyway, moan over. The debt issue is clearly the sellers responsibility and they should have been aware, but you know some people (not on this board of course!) are just so unaware of financial considerations it makes you weep.

I'd offer them less now for the house, to compensate for the considerable hassle you've had to go through at an important time in your life. They may think twice about mucking you about...

chem14346777

Hi Bodgery.

re; Conveyancer -- exactly what we've been thinking, a bit of everything I feel, they seemed to swing from very helpful/friendly, to unhelpful/arrogant and back again on a daily basis, but they were recommended to me by a number of people who have had no problems in the past (I guess if everything goes through trouble-free, then they're fine).

Obviously being a 1st time buyer it was difficult knowing what to expect from anyone.

We have approached the CAB, and they seem to think we have a case against the conveyancer, but since this "second chance", we're reluctant to do anything just now, as we can't afford to be paying another solicitor/conveyancer after upsetting this one!

and as for the seller -- absolutely, they must have had their head in the sand, but for the house to have already fallen through once, makes you wonder whether the exact thing happened earlier on in the year too!

finally, it would be great to offer less, but I think even with the smaller council charges they will have to pay in May, they will still only scrape through with enough to sell the house (Ie; make no money off the sale), so by offering less is effectively putting them in the same situation again.

Jim.

claz

re complaining about the solicitor the standard time for a complaint to be made is either as soon as the problem occurs or as soon as the case is concluded, i checked this out on the law society website myself as my solicitor was c**p, i work in a criminal defence solicitors so i had a pretty good idea about how to get his a**e into gear

if you want to make an official complaint once everything has gone through they cannot complain, look at your initial documents from the sol's as this will proabably give you some details about their complaint's procedure also check if they are regulated by the law society if they are have a look on their website as it gives you loads of advice about how you should complain

when you complain make sure you ask for a copy of their complaints procedure as this will make them think that you have a bit more knowledge then you perhaps do (i always do this but can rarely understand the information they send), standard time for responding is usually 28 days, if you aren't happy complain to their manager and if you still aren't happy state you will report them to the law society that should get them into gear

chem14346777

Thanks, thats definately something worth considering.

does anyone else have any opinions/suggestions for any of my other queries?

Doozergirl

If you want to go ahead with the purchase and it is as good value as you say, then I can't see any reason why you shouldn't buy it. After all, you've already spent a small fortune. You should exchange contracts as soon as you can.

Once you've exchanged, the sale is binding and if (God forbid) anything else goes wrong, you should be able to sue and get all of your costs back, which you wouldn't be able to do now. The fact that your conveyancer is happy to exchange now should be some reassurance that all questions are answered and you shouldn't encounter any further problems.

I can't think of any real issues regarding the house being left empty. Of course it's possible that the pipes might have frozen and burst, but we've bought so many empty houses and never encountered this ourselves. I'd let the taps run for an age before drinking anything though! Eewrgh!

If anything happens to the house, you both have insurable interests but because your vendors have no money, I'd be wary about whether they are continuing to insure it. Just insure the property as best you can to cover every event. I'm sure as it's been empty this long it will be fine.

Good Luck with the impending birth. My baby will have her first birthday around the time yours is born. They grow so quickly, you'll discover!

chem14346777

Thanks Doozergirl!

We're both really excited about everything, the baby, etc, it was just so gutting when the house we'd pictured ourselves in and made all these plans for seemed to be slipping from our fingertips! Though, hopefully things will all sort themselves out now!

Its crazy to think that this time last year I was a complete money wasting beer monster with debts and no real aspirations and have now turned into a responsible home buying father-to-be, focused on a career with money in the bank.. just coz some little strip of paper turned blue!

Meeten

I think that there is a requirement for no material damage to the property to take place frmo exchange to completion, So, if they do decide to go banzai, and wreck the place, then you SHOULD be able to sue for damages, as effectively, you are not buying the smae place that you put an offer in for.

I would def look for a price reduction - something that is tangible - like the additional costs that you incurred in waiting from the original completion date (10 Feb) to the new completion date (dd May). You also should look to include the additional expense incurred with your (what seems $hite) solicitor!

All they can do is say no - and if they do, then they, as the seller, will have to go through the whole process of re-marketing the property again.


Good luck, and I hope that you manage to get a place for the forthcoming family!

The_Geek

3) do I still go ahead in May? the Conveyancer is willing to exchange contracts tomorrow (or whenever) if we wish, so we would like to find a more competative mortgage (we were originally taking a 100% interest only, but with all the cash we've saved over the past couple of months can now afford the 5% deposit), and go for it -- should we? there are simply NO other properties similar to this for this kind of money now, as house prices have shot up in the area.

You could go and get a better mortgage but of course your lender will insist on their own survey etc. and you will lose any fees you may have had to pay up front. It will mean more delays before you can exchange again. Could be worth it tho depending on the deal you currently have.

Personally I'd hang fire on exchanging as long as you can. Once you've exchanged, its yours. Given the history, I'd leave it as close as you can til the moving in date to give yourself some options.

Its crazy to think that this time last year I was a complete money wasting beer monster with debts and no real aspirations and have now turned into a responsible home buying father-to-be, focused on a career with money in the bank.. just coz some little strip of paper turned blue!

Congratulations mate! :beer: Soon you'll change again! Into responsible home owning father focused on career with NO money in the bank..just cos junior's chomping his way thru it all! :rotfl: