Abbey have lost DD to Streamline. Just me?

Midgelet_2

Having been through the trauma of the Abbey Business Banking "upgrade" and spent hours on the "helpline" getting it sorted out (and I know from reading the forum that I am not alone in that) I thought things would get better - wrong!

During the upgrade Abbey lost all of my standing orders and some of my direct debits. Most of these turned up again but Abbey are denying all knowledge of the DD to Streamline which has been on the account since July 2005. According to Abbey I have never had a DD and must have been paying Streamline by card. This is absolute rubbish.

I wrote a letter of complaint to Abbey. They rang up and said that no DD had ever existed. I said it had - impasse. They said they would look into it again - rang back a week later saying no DD had ever existed. I disagreed. They then wrote to me saying how pleased they were that the problem was resolved! I wrote back - not resolved, sort it out. They wrote saying that they would look into it and get back to me within 4 weeks. That was on 4 Feb 09. Nothing heard. I rang them. They said no DD has ever existed. I said getting bored with you calling me a liar. I have a copy of the DD. They finally said they could see payments going out on DD in 2006 and 2007 and would look into it again. That was 2 weeks ago - still heard nothing.

In the meantime Streamline asked me to complete new DD forms which I did in January 09. They were apparently sent on to Abbey but when Streamline went to take money they were told that there was no instruction. Abbey seem to have lost new DD forms. It still isn't showing on account. Streamline have not been able to take DD since December (but have been paid by other means).

Streamline have been very reasonable about it. Apparently this is because they are having trouble with lots of Abbey accounts - and they say it isn't just Streamline, it's Abbey and various different merchant accounts.

Good job business is slow - wouldn't have time to fight with Abbey otherwise. Thinking of going to Co-Op FSB account - but are they any better?

rbulph

It seems that if no debit is taken from a direct debit for a long time, banks are at risk of just "losing" it. This has happened to me recently with NatWest. They denied the direct debit's existence until I pointed out the payment made two years ago, but they then said that it simply wasn't showing up on their system so no payment could be made on it. It's very frustrating.

Midgelet_2

OK, but this DD was paid every month from July 2005 until they upgraded the system in Nov/Dec 08. It is actually more than one DD because I have several accounts with Streamline - all were being paid monthly until the upgrade and all have disappeared.

Mikeyorks

rbulph wrote: »

It seems that if no debit is taken from a direct debit for a long time, banks are at risk of just "losing" it.

They don't lose it ....... it 'lapses' if it's not used for 13 months. It's a specific requirement of the DD system to do that - and therefore it's across all Banks.

From the BACS (DD) site :-

Q. Why has a dormancy period been introduced?
A. The dormancy period rule was introduced as a safeguard to the Direct Debit Scheme to protect payers from Direct Debit Instructions being live on their account indefinitely. So if you should forget to cancel a Direct Debit it will be removed from the banks’ system after the dormancy period has lapsed.

jonesMUFCforever

...................and forms are not lost by Abbey as Streamline would set up the D/D themselves under AUDDIS.

I can't believe it I think I'm defending Abbey!!!! where are the aspirins?

rbulph

Mikeyorks wrote: »

They don't lose it ....... it 'lapses' if it's not used for 13 months. It's a specific requirement of the DD system to do that - and therefore it's across all Banks.

From the BACS (DD) site :-

Thanks for the explanation. But I think this is a stupid idea by whoever is responsible. Suppose I have a credit card on which I pay the full balance each month by DD. I stop using it for over a year. Then the issuer has a promotion so I start using it again. I go on holiday and don't see my credit card statement while I'm away. I assume that there'll be no problem because I have my DD. But the DD has lapsed, the payment fails and I get stung for a penalty by the issuer. This is just something extra for me to have to worry about.

Midgelet_2

But this doesn't explain what has happened to my original Streamline DD's. They were active until immediately before the Abbey upgrade.

rbulph

I've written to Mr BACS:

"Dear Sirs

Having recently had a direct debit payment refused by my bank because no collection had been made on it in the last two years I have discovered that you have introduced a system where direct debit instructions lapse if no collections are made over a thirteen month period. The explanation for this on your website is:

"The dormancy period rule was introduced as a safeguard to the Direct Debit Scheme to protect payers from Direct Debit Instructions being live on their account indefinitely. So if you should forget to cancel a Direct Debit it will be removed from the banks’ system after the dormancy period has lapsed."

There is no explanation as to why I should need protection from a direct debit being live indefinitely. If I authorise a direct debit then I expect it to be there when I am obliged to make a payment. Otherwise (a) I risk a penalty from companies such as credit card issuers if I start to use a card again after a period of non use and (b) I have to make alternative arrangements for payment, request new direct debit forms and send them off whenever a direct debit lapses.

I would go so far as to say that I think the decision to introduce a dormancy period is plain stupid, and I would urge you to reconsider it.

Yours faithfully

rbulph"

:rolleyes:

rbulph

Here's the reply I got:

"Thank you for your email,

[SIZE=+0]The dormancy period rule was introduced some 10 years ago in order to reduce the number of expired / unused Direct Debit Instructions (DDIs) remaining on a customer's bank account. All banks are required to hold details of DDI's on file for a minimum period of 13 months from lodgement of the DDI, in the event of no collections or the date of the last payment. After this time a paying bank may drop details of the DDI. They are however, not required to do so and some banks may hold onto the DDI for a longer period. A Direct Debit Originator can extend the dormancy period, with their sponsoring bank's authority, should their normal course of business require this. [/SIZE]

Direct Debits are, in the main, used to pay regular payments e.g. utility bills, insurance premiums etc therefore in most cases this situation doesn't arise. There are however exceptions of which Credit Card is one, as the Direct Debit will only be utilised following usage of the Card or if there is an outstanding balance on the account.

All organisations using Direct Debit as a payment mechanism should be aware of the dormancy rule and it is their responsibility to ensure that they comply with the Direct Debit Scheme Rules, therefore payers such as yourself should not be required to take any action once a Direct Debit has been set up on their account except to ensure that funds are available to meet the Direct Debit collection. I would suggest therefore that you contact the Originator in question to request reimbursement of interest lost / charges incurred should this matter arise.

I hope this information helps, however should you have any further queries, please feel free to contact us again.

Kind Regards
______________________________________________________

Madeline Dempster"

This seems to slightly contradict the information on the BACs website which states that Originators must contact a payer in order to extend a direct debit after a dormancy period, but it's good to know that a payer shouldn't incur any costs as a result of a lapsed direct debit.

From the BACS website:

[URL="javascript:__doPostBack('ctl00$ContentPlaceHolder1$FAQS$What happens to a Direct Debit Instruction at the end of a dormancy period','')"]Q. What happens to a Direct Debit Instruction at the end of a dormancy period? [/URL]
A. After the dormancy period has passed, the bank will remove details of the Instruction from their system. Before claiming further Direct Debit payments the organisation must obtain a new Direct Debit Instruction or your authority to continue collecting. If this is not done your Direct Debit payment may be returned by your bank.

brightonman123

i would change banks. if enough people did it, it MAY prompt them into bucking up their ideas.. did probs occur after Santando or whoever took over? i wonder if foreign banks are up to speed, with this D/D malarkey..

I have worked for a (decent!) loan co before, and kept copies of EVERYTHING that got sent to banks.. i wonder if on busy days stuff just gets binned to clear their desks!