Told to not come back!!

taliesin

I'm not the best one to talk about JSA. I know a bit about exit procedures because I work for an organisation where, if we have to part company with a colleague, we make sure we do it right. I've never had to sign on, but that's the obvious next step for your sister. I expect they will want to see the dismissal letter. They have to check that a claimant has not voluntarily made themselves unemployed.

I'm sure others here can tell you more.

hafe4k

Hi ppl,
She has drafted the below letter to send as no response given. Is this ok, or abit harsh? Any amendments? Please advice ... she will send it on Monday.

I refer to my previous correspondence and note that, to date, I have not received the following requested information:
- Full details of the reason for termination of my employment
- Details of all disciplinary or redundancy procedures that have so far been followed
- Any opportunity for further appeal that may still be open to me

I respectfully request that you provide, in writing the previously asked for by return and certainly within the remaining time period as defined by the Employment Act 2008.

If, however, a response is not given within 28 days from the date of the original correspondence of 30th March 2009, which I will deem to occur on the third working day after the date of that letter. My appointed solicitor will obtain the information through the legal processes available to them. If this course of action in necessary, I would also advise you that I will be forwarding copies of all correspondence regarding this matter to the employment tribunal by way of evidence of your failure to comply.

Thanks in advance.

taliesin

I think your sister's draft says far too much, and tries too hard to sound "legal". This is one of those cases, in my view, where "less is more".

Regrettably, it now looks as if this will go to a tribunal, although we can still reasonably hope that, once the tribunal staff get involved, it can be settled at the conciliation stage. The employer's response to this request is probably the most important of the documents they will consider. There is some chance that the employer will damn themselves at this point, either by failing to reply, or by replying in a manner which demonstrates clearly that the dismissal was unfair. So it's probably better not to alert them to a pending tribunal. All the tribunal office will expect from the employee is evidence that a statement of the reasons for dismissal has been requested.

It's not for your sister to remind the employer of their legal obligations. Specifically, don't imply that you have appointed a solicitor to represent you unless you have done so (if you have, s/he should be writing this letter!). You don't need a solicitor to take a case to an employment tribunal - it is intended that complainants should be able to present their own case. And it's not for you to "deem" when the employer has satisfied the legal requirements - that's for the tribunal, if it comes to that.

So I would just stop at "I respectfully request that you provide, in writing, the information previously asked for without further delay".

hafe4k

Not a problem m8.

Could she write she wants a response within 14 days?

taliesin

Again, I would suggest keeping this correspondence to a businesslike minimum. This stage is about demonstrating that your sister has done all she can to settle the matter using the employer's procedures, and documenting that she has given them time to respond. So, personally, I would leave out any mention of deadlines.

hafe4k

Hi once again,
Wats the best course of action now? should she start prceedings through the employment tribunal? Hows does this work? Any tips somewhere on this site?

Thanks for all ur help so far ppl.

taliesin

They still have a week or so left to reply, but if you wish, you could start to assemble her case for the tribunal. The Employment Tribunal website (http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/ if you are in England or Wales) contains plenty of useful factual guidance and the forms. Some of the details of both the process and forms changed on April 6th. As I see it, the events that gave rise to your claim occurred before that date so I expect you will have to use the old forms, but it would be a good idea to ring the ET enquiry line and check.

The local CAB will hopefully be your first line of support, as they can see all of the details of your case - it would be inappropriate to post personal details here - but there are quite a few useful threads on this board. For example, there's a long one started a few weeks ago by jobbingmusician which was intended as a general discussion of the ET process (although has become rather engaged with a specific case). JM's initial post is very well worth reading.

If, after reading some more, you decide to take your case to the next level, I suggest you start a new thread with a title that makes it clear it is about taking your case to the ET. That will ensure you get the attention of posters with relevant experience.

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Good advice by many as usual on this topic.

My opinion is they mistakenly believe that as there is no wriiten contact in existence then they do not have to follow the normal employment law practices. As previously stated there will have been a verbal contract that was offered and accepted 2 years ago and the fact that a person has turned up and performed their duties during that time and that they have duly paid that person (assuming wage slips have been provided, P60s) contitutes a contract and therefore they are bound by employment legislation to follow the correct procedures.
At this time the employers have only been advised out of courtesy of the intention to leave on a certain date and they have decided to completely disregard the laws.
If it were me in this position I would be very clear in any letter that my intentions were stated at this time for the benefit of my employer, that I had not handed in any form of notice and therefore until such time that I did I am still an employee of there business and entitled to payment of my salary. I would also make it very clear that they are legally obliged to continue my employment until as such time that I submit my notice with a termination date specified in the notice. Obviously if they wish to pay my salary due up to my intended day of termination without the requirement to turn up to work then I may consider such an option under legal advice, for which I would require them to pay for.
I would make it very clear to them that their actions are contrary to the minimum procedures laid down in employment legislation for dealing with dismissal (which by saying don't come back to work is) and that I would not hesitate to take this matter to a tribunal under a claim for unfair dismissal on the grounds of failure to follow the correct procedures.
Others may say that this is being confrontational but in todays economic downturn employers are resorting to unfair/illegal practices and hoping that the poor old employee will just accept what they are handed out. By writing a strong letter clearly indicating that they are in breech of your rights under employment law might make them realise their faults and change their approach to this whole sorry situation. The fact that they say that they cannot afford more than 5 staff is not your problem, if they decide to not take on the other staff member (but that date has passed) and now decide to get rid of them they may find themslves with another problem of their own making.
From this point on I would advise you to keep a diary of everything that is said or done, where ever possible do things in writing, accept only written replies, keep copies of everything and if at all possible always have some one close to hand to act as a witness to what is said and done.

Thats what I would do but that's just me, employers have to realise that employees have rights in law and they are bound to act within those laws.

Best of luck

OH DEAR, I appear to have only read the first page of this thread and replied on that basis, your not the only one brain dead Musician! So once again due praise on your advice in raising this point it would be favourable to show you have attempted to exhaust the companies procedures to settle this matter.

jobbingmusician

Can I just recap? (I have read the thread, but am a bit brain dead this evening after a long day). Is your sister still going to work or not?

The only thing which seems to be missing so far in this process is the raising of a formal grievance. Your sister's employer/manager has done something stupid and illegal. In order for your sister to escalate this at all, she will have to demonstrate that she has tried to sort things out with her employer. She should write a letter to her manager's manager (if this person doesn't exist, she should write to the board of governors of the nursery. If there is no-one above her except her manager, she should write to the manager. But my understanding is that most nurseries have a board of governors). The letter should be headed FORMAL GRIEVANCE, and should give a short summary of what has happened, together with the letter sent earlier to the employer. She should also request a copy of the employer's grievance procedure.

Once this is sent, she will have great ammo for demonstrating that she has jumped through all the hoops a tribunal would like (I am a bit brain dead this evening, though. I will subscribe to this thread and look at it again later in the week....)

CrashUK

Also try step one.. my gf get sack and they helped we got £4000 also if she is signing on you will have to pay it back out of the money you get and they will also have to to pay tax to the tax man