Devastating blow for households in fuel poverty

Ken68

The guvmint have an existing system, Plus, and it seems to work well. Once you make it 'vouchable' then the energy supplier could cash in on your age and infirmity.
Probably make it only cashable on special tariffs wrapped up to look like a bargain. Similar to the price structure for the poorest now who can claim the xtra 20% (or could be 10%), really just the high standard tariff reduced to bring it into line with the cheapest anyway.

1carminestocky

The energy companies have a problem with this sort of thing because it impacts on the way they do business - i.e. use their existing, loyal punters who have been overpaying on their expensive standard rates for donkey's years to effectively subsidise their online tariffs/forays to the top of the switching sites.

Decado23

Cardew wrote: »

The problem with this private members Bill is that it placed the onus of providing a cheap tariff for those in fuel poverty on the Utility companies.

All the companies would do is cross-subsidise tariffs. Other customers would pay more - Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

It is the Government's responsibility to provide financial assistance to those it is deemed require help for any reason.

If it is felt that Fuel poverty(10% of disposable income on fuel) is deserving of an allowance, then the Government should provide the financial assistance; not pass the buck to private companies to carry out the means testing and supply the financial help.

completely agree. :beer:


'course the robbing peter to pay paul... same could be said of cashback for switching, dual fuel discounts and online only deals - other customers subsidise all that.

Unfortunately there seems to be a higher proportion of over 65s and people from the 'poorer demographic' that have never switched or only switched once, don't take advantage of DD discounts and don't have internet access.

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Consumers/CF/Documents1/Customer_Engagement_Survey_FINAL1.pdf

I wonder what % of people hunting for the best deals would be required to force a shift in the market so suppliers have to give competetive pricing for all customers.

1carminestocky

Oooh, excellent find. This is an interesting paragraph.

Most customers are open-minded about the brands they would consider, though one in three can name at least one supplier they would avoid. Most of these are Big Six brands, led by British Gas. While some brands may be rejected perhaps because customers have already switched away from them, the minor brands are more likely to be rejected because they are simply not heard of.

When you marry this to the latest Which? survey on energy company satisafction, then surely any regulator with the interests of the consumer at heart would recognise there's a real need for tougher regulation of this industry? The Which survey states that the average customer satisfaction rating in the industry is 43%. Disgusting taken in isolation but when you consider there were only, I believe, 8 companies surveyed and the 2 (non Big 6) suppliers who came out top had scores of 73% and 83%, it doesn't bode well for the feeling the GBP have for the Big 6.

Ken68

Wow, thank you Decado, some report. To think 40% never switched, yet high dis-satisfaction with BG.

littletommytucker

Ken68 Anyway, whisky is heat and so is a Spanish holiday.
And I doubt a debtor will admit to the creditor they have wasted money on presents.

Everyday I get questioned "where on earth do you expect an 82 year old couple to get this kind of money" ....to which my reply is "you should have recieved a £400 allowance for your winter fuel"....to which they usually very openly tell me it is there perogative to spend that on a holiday/christmas presents/rent/council tax/face lift

Cardew

Decado23 wrote: »

completely agree. :beer:


'course the robbing peter to pay paul... same could be said of cashback for switching, dual fuel discounts and online only deals - other customers subsidise all that.

Agreed I have posted many times that the comparison websites, with their commission driven incentive to get people to change supplier are an unneccesary overhead and add to our costs.

In the evidence to the Parliamentary Committee on energy it was stated that 20% of those who switch, move to a more expensive tariff.

That of course is not all down to the websites - doorstep salesmen play their part.

It is difficult enough for Social Services and the Tax authorities to means test a household income even though they are backed by the law.

What chance would an Energy company have of determining if a customer was indeed suffering from fuel poverty. In practice most people who applied for a social tariff would get it.

It also raises the question of the ratio of those on a social tariff with the various companies.

e.g. If Company A had, say, 20% on a social tariff and Company B 10%, then Company A would be at a disadvantage as the cross subsidy would be carried by 80% of their customers instead of 90% for Company B.

Even the definition of 'Fuel Poverty' i.e. 10% of disposable income, is flawed.

Couple A have a disposable income of £8,000 and spend £750 on fuel so are not in fuel poverty.

Couple B have a disposable income of £10,000 and spend £1050 on fuel so are in fuel poverty.

Self evidently Couple B are better off than Couple A to the tune of £1,700 but Couple B get the social tariff.

Ken68

All customers pay for wasteful ways and commissions in house or otherwise. It's the energy companies driving the switching sites. Sort out the multitude of prices and then you can curtail Energyhelpline and such.
Or re-nationalise the whole shooting match.

Decado23

Cardew wrote: »

Even the definition of 'Fuel Poverty' i.e. 10% of disposable income, is flawed.

Couple A have a disposable income of £8,000 and spend £750 on fuel so are not in fuel poverty.

Couple B have a disposable income of £10,000 and spend £1050 on fuel so are in fuel poverty.

Self evidently Couple B are better off than Couple A to the tune of £1,700 but Couple B get the social tariff.

does seem a tad daft put like that. come to think of it, what's disposable income? between the mortgage/bills/nappies/food/etc I'm just about breaking even 'til the little 'un is in school and the missus goes back to work (assuming there are any jobs left by then).

Decado23

littletommytucker wrote: »

Everyday I get questioned "where on earth do you expect an 82 year old couple to get this kind of money" ....to which my reply is "you should have recieved a £400 allowance for your winter fuel"....to which they usually very openly tell me it is there perogative to spend that on a holiday/christmas presents/rent/council tax/face lift

I gotta take the pensioners side on this one... worked (and paid tax) for maybe 66 years, fought or lived through a war or two.. etc.

Why do these people have pensions so low they have to subsidise holiday/christmas presents/rent/council tax/face lift out of their heating allowance (not to sure about the last one though )? Should pensioners have no expectation of any quality of life in their old age, eking out an existance between the post office and the grocers? Perhaps we should close down all the bingo halls, surely the money spent there would be better put aside in case it's a chilly one again next year.

And god forbid any 82 year old to expect to buy their (great?)grandchildren a cuddly toy or two for birthdays/christmas.