FT: The cost of burgeoning national debt

Generali

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

That is my point. Spending can increase for many reasons. It is a means to an end, not an ideology in itself. That is why your definition of socialism was incorrect.

Spending seems to be an ideology in itself to most European socialist parties, the UK Labour Party included. They have shown that over the past 12 years.

Rochdale_Pioneers

Gordon Brown is set to bequeath taxpayers a public borrowing bill from this recession so large it will surpass the stock of national debt inherited by Labour when it came to power in 1997.

It does make you wonder on what planet the Tories live on when they claim that debt is already higher than its ever been anywhere and that we're the most indebted state on earth.

Generali

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

It does make you wonder on what planet the Tories live on when they claim that debt is already higher than its ever been anywhere and that we're the most indebted state on earth.

Do you have a link to put that into context?

tinkers

Generali wrote: »

You think the UK Government isn't Socialist? They've increased Government spending and debt dramatically, increased tax take and redistributed income as a result.


Do you have evidence to back up this wild claim about income redistribution?? A few more people getting working tax credit DOES NOT equal income redistribution at all, because it is not real income- people are still stuck in the poverty trap and cannot better themselves they are still reliant on state help.

The rich have got incredibly rich and the poor have continued to be poor under labour.

If New Labour are socialists then black has become white

ninky_2

Generali wrote: »

You think the UK Government isn't Socialist? They've increased Government spending and debt dramatically, increased tax take and redistributed income as a result.

Isn't that Socialism? That they use laissez-faire rhetoric doesn't make them Libertarian.

Whatever ideology the current UK Government is, perhaps we can agree that they've destroyed the economy for a Generation and perhaps beyond.

so that's why the US economy is also up the swanny. bush was a secret red. he hid that well!

Rochdale_Pioneers

Generali wrote: »

Do you have a link to put that into context?

cf PMQs and interviews passim. The Tory front bench keep stating that we have more government debt than anyone else, the government keep pointing out this is nonsense.

benood

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

It does make you wonder on what planet the Tories live on when they claim that debt is already higher than its ever been anywhere and that we're the most indebted state on earth.

There is a difference between public borrowing and the national debt I think.

Public Borrowing = annual government expenditure less total annual tax receipts

National debt = total amount owed by the nation.

So its as if an individual borrowed an amount on his credit cards to fund his lifestyle in 2009 greater than the total of his mortgage and other debt in 1997. Scary.

Sir_Humphrey

benood wrote: »

There is a difference between public borrowing and the national debt I think.

Public Borrowing = annual government expenditure less total annual tax receipts

National debt = total amount owed by the nation.

So its as if an individual borrowed an amount on his credit cards to fund his lifestyle in 2009 greater than the total of his mortgage and other debt in 1997. Scary.

A government borrowing a lot is very different to an individual borrowing a lot. Forget any idea that running a nation's budget is anything like a personal budget.

ninky_2

what is that actual national debt at the moment and what happens if we don't pay it?

Sir_Humphrey

ninky wrote: »

what is that actual national debt at the moment and what happens if we don't pay it?

A lot lower than most other advanced countries. Most of the recent increase is down to the bank rescues, a policy supported by both Labour and the Tories. Had the banking system collapsed, the economic armageddon would have been much more expensive.