FT: The cost of burgeoning national debt

Wookster

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Well do we actually borrow the money or don't we? The statisticians have to follow their accounting rules which push up our net debt alarmingly, but at no point does the government actually have to borrow that money off anyone, and no interest has to be paid on it because its still sat in the accounts of our theoretical lendees. "Debt" that we haven't had to borrow isn't what I would call "debt".

I'm sure if you check up with other countries (e.g. Germany/ USA) do you'll see that they count debt in exactly the same way. Or are you proposing that the UK throws out the norm and goes its own way in counting debt?

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

What a good job then that we started out with less debt than so many of our competitors. We can afford a higher budget deficit for longer with the lower debt we started out with.

Lets go back to this: who is more capable of repaying debt, the UK or Germany?

chucky

Wookster wrote: »

Lets go back to this: who is more capable of repaying debt, the UK or Germany?

The UK will be better in my opinion - Germany has the incoming mess of the Euro to deal with.

Imagine if they have to support the worse countries in the Euro, politically it will be good but economically? That will be messy.

Wookster

JACKBLACK wrote: »

This thread should be entitled unemployed males run down Britain 'cos they have nought better to do?

Yup - my ignore list has just grown by one. One less moron's posts to read.

Generali

Wookster wrote: »

Yup - my ignore list has just grown by one. One less moron's posts to read.

Hmm. It's amazing. Every few weeks some idiot with a dozen or so posts starts taking pot shots at other posters. Perhaps it's the same person over and over again.

Just a thought.

ninky_2

JACKBLACK wrote: »

This thread should be entitled unemployed males run down Britain 'cos they have nought better to do?

it seems bizarre to me that someone living in australia, presumably to enjoy a new life, weather, society would spend a lot of time discussing the economy of the country they have just departed in great detail.

but maybe i'm missing something?

Wookster

Generali wrote: »

Hmm. It's amazing. Every few weeks some idiot with a dozen or so posts starts taking pot shots at other posters. Perhaps it's the same person over and over again.

Just a thought.

I suspect that its a regular here who has a sock puppet they use to discharge pent up tension. You wander what goes through some peoples heads (probably not much though).

ninky wrote: »

it seems bizarre to me that someone living in australia, presumably to enjoy a new life, weather, society would spend a lot of time discussing the economy of the country they have just departed in great detail.

but maybe i'm missing something?

Not at all - I'm originally Zimbabwean and I follow Zimbabwean news very closely. Furthermore if you are used to being in a job where your brain was used and now are not then its fairly natural to want to keep your brain alive through stimulation or some sort. For some its reading, some debating online, others taking pot shots through sock puppets on the web...

Generali

Wookster wrote: »

Not at all - I'm originally Zimbabwean and I follow Zimbabwean news very closely. Furthermore if you are used to being in a job where your brain was used and now are not then its fairly natural to want to keep your brain alive through stimulation or some sort. For some its reading, some debating online, others taking pot shots through sock puppets on the web...

Bingo! Wookster wins tonight's special prize - a slightly patronising post in his honour!

Not working and having no income is very boring and the old brain starts to seize up. Posting on here helps keep it moving.

I've become very fit as a result of not working though!

Rochdale_Pioneers

Wookster wrote: »

I'm sure if you check up with other countries (e.g. Germany/ USA) do you'll see that they count debt in exactly the same way. Or are you proposing that the UK throws out the norm and goes its own way in counting debt?

I suggest no such thing - I am well aware of the technical accounting rules in use. You're evading the point. If I as the UK bail out a bank and therefore own it, everything I spend on that bailout is debt, because I have to borrow the money to fund it. If my statisticians then assume the bank to be worthless and increase my debt total acordingly, have I actually borrowed that money?

Yes of course you count national debt on whatever methodology is used. When you calculate the cost of maintaining that debt and interest payments you have to set this number aside and count the actual amount of cash the government has borrowed and therefore owes to others. As the government has neither borrowed cash to fund the notional bank debt nor is paying anything towards this, to include the topline figure as your basis for costs to repay is to divorce yourself from reality.

Wookster wrote: »

Lets go back to this: who is more capable of repaying debt, the UK or Germany?

I'd say us. Germany's economy relies on manufacturing exports, which until the global economy picks up will remain in a hole. As the lender of last resort for the entire EU Germany will end up either allowing the Euro to break apart (and thus shoulder the costs of recreating the Mark and the effects of the Euro's failure on the Eurozone), or will have to bail out the poorer parts of the union - Spain, Italy, Greece, Eastern Europe - and that will cost a fortune.

We are liable for the failings of our banks. Germany is effectively liable for the failings of Europe's banks. I know where I'd rather be.

ninky_2

Wookster wrote: »

Furthermore if you are used to being in a job where your brain was used and now are not then its fairly natural to want to keep your brain alive through stimulation or some sort.

fair point.

however, it is interesting that this mental stimulation is uk oriented.

we are, it seems, still good for something.

Generali

ninky wrote: »

fair point.

however, it is interesting that this mental stimulation is uk oriented.

we are, it seems, still good for something.

I've been posting on here for years and I enjoy it.

I'm not sure what the problem is really.