Father-in-law refused Attendance Allowance

Bogof_Babe

My f-i-l had a serious operation just before Christmas, and although he is now considered to be recovered, he still needs someone with him nearly all the time, and especially overnight. This is partly a confidence thing, but also in case he falls down the stairs or something, as he is very frail at 85 anyway. He is a widower so would be alone in the house otherwise.

My husband and his sister have been taking turns to stay with him, but this has gone on so long now and is disrupting their lives. I am fed up of being on my own at home too, but that is by the way.

They applied for AA for f-i-l in view of his general condition, but have just heard it has been rejected as he can still "toilet himself". That isn't really the point, as I see it.

My husband was hoping to get a part time job (he has retired from his old job, partly due to looking after his dad), but he can't while he has to spend so much time with his father. Hubby has already had to refuse a job offer at a local DIY store, which would have suited him fine.

Now that AA has been refused, he can't even apply for Carer's Allowance either, as the carer has to be looking after someone who is in receipt of AA or some other type of disability allowance, I believe.

This doesn't seem right to me. Is it worth appealing, and if so what should we say to make it more likely to be granted?

margaretclare

Hi Babe

It has to be a permanent condition which has lasted for 6 months or more. The fact that he had a serious operation may not count, because it's assumed that you recover from any operation no matter how serious. Nor does it count simply the fact that he's 85.

I know what you mean about 'confidence' - I had major surgery nearly 3 months ago and haven't got back to driving yet. Confidence, you see!

What they say is 'the amount of care he needs, both day and night'. Get someone to help you fill the form in - someone from Welfare Rights for example. There are ways of wording these forms that make it more likely that it's granted. Certainly, appeal.

Also, evidence from someone else - someone outside the family - is helpful. Consultant's letters, for example?

Just a few ideas.

Aunty Margaret

Bogof_Babe

Thank you so much for that reply Auntie M (I wish - all my real aunties are dead now ).

The problem is really that although he probably could manage overnight on his own, he doesn't want to. He's got used to having company almost 24 hours a day. To be honest, at his time of life, I don't blame him not wanting to have to put the cat out and make sure the doors are locked etc.

I don't know how we get around that without being brutal, which is the last thing we want to do. He's a lovely bloke who has hit a critical time in his life, having spent most of it until now looking after others. It doesn't seem fair.

hjb123

Have you been to somewhere such as your local Citizens Advice Bureau to see if they can offer some advice as to what to do?

They may be able to tell you what you could be entitled to or even if there are people available to help

Fran

Difinitely visit CAB or other Welfare Benefits people in the area. This decision should be appealed, you have one month to appeal so it's important to get the paperwork looked at by CAB soon as possible.

lynzpower

Hi there
I have a job working in the Social Services Department for older people in central london local. I think there are two issues here.

1. Difference between your F-i-lS needs and wants.
I would say, this is the real sticking point. Legislation for the welfare of older people suggests to us ( as staff and recipients) that we should be looking for ways to maximise older peoples independence. If we "allow" care to be provided that is not NEEDED then this can marginalise the recipient and reduce thier own life choices. Now Im not saying that you and your family are purposefully doing so, but research tells us that provision of care when its not neccesary isnt a good thing. If your father is unwilling to accept that he will have to do things for himself then....time for option 2.
2. Direct Payments.
I would look and approach the local authority social services division for an assessment ( they cant refuse this by law) and to discuss direct payments. There may be a suggestion that your father in law is showing signs of depression, and they may want your FIL to see his GP about this. They will undertake an assessment of his needs/wants. You should also request a carers assessment saying you are at the end of your tethers and they have to help you. There are loads of services, Ie someone to do your shopping for you ( to relieve the care burden) cleaning, holiday payments etc. You should be entitled to this in your own right, whether your father is assessed as in need or not. Your father may be able to recieve mealsonwheels, cleaning, shopping, but only if its decided that he CANT do those things for himself, not he doesnt want to. (for example i dont really want to do my own cleaning, although IM able to do it, the taxpayer shouldnt pick up the tab for this) If however, due to his emotional state, or his physical needs then he could get services, even if its just for a short while. ( social services often provide short term services like this after people come out of hospital) If there is a potential for the input to go on for a while, or he is assessed as in need, instead of having a member of staff come over to his hoime, direct payments, allows him to employ someone himself, and the council give him the money. the plus of this is he can choose who he likes, the downer is that there is a tax/ni obluigation on him as an employer along with holiday entitlement isses. If he gets granted DPs then he will have support from the social services division, he wont be on his own with it
Lynz
x

margaretclare

Hi Lynz

But what you say won't solve the problem of him not wanting to be on his own overnight, will it? I can see where you're coming from - it's a difference between needs and wants, and you've put that very clearly.

I had major surgery (2nd revision of hip replacement) early December. There were several of the people there who were going back to be on their own. I am lucky, my darling husband is here, but I've got used to going to bed before him and he brings me a lovely mug of herby tea, and tea in the mornings (although I made it this morning). We haven't a cat - we have a wildlife garden and wildlife and cats are incompatible. But I've got used to not having to drive, and I need to get back to it.

It might be a thought - does he need to move to somewhere a bit more manageable???

Aunty Margaret

jockettuk

this sounds very much like my partners grandmother.. when his grandad died and he was very poorly and almost bedridden they got no help there. his grandmother stopped doing things for herself, they had previously moved to be near the MIL. The mil fed her clothed her washed her was with her all day untill abt 9 at night when they made her go back to her flat just across the road, mil needed some time off. the grandmother was a danger to herself she would leave the gas on so they got it cut off MIL fed her anyway. she would wander out during the night sometimes in her nightgown police bringing her back, MIL was ill with worry and fatigue and yet the people who could help said No every time MIL asked for help she was told nothing could be done and this was in central london. Eventually she was hospitalised after a fall and the only way the MIL could get help was by refusing to have her home. This caused a lot of heartache but it was the only way. Conclusion to this was that the MIL agreed to put her into a home but not in london cause they said no she would stay in hospital were she had already caught MRSA. partner in aylesbury Bucks so MIL looked at the situation there they said yes along as the MIL moved there and this is what is happening as we speak.. Bucks have been great abt it all and the guilt abt putting her in a home is made less by the fact she will just be living round the corner ..

Bogof_Babe

Oh dear Jockett, you have it so much worse than we do. I am glad it is sorted out now, but what a nightmare!

Lynz, thank you so much for that very comprehensive reply. Can I just pick your brain a little bit further?

I am also caring for my own two parents, aged 87 and almost 91. They still live in their own home but have become so frail that it is doubtful how much longer they can manage. I go up a few times a week, but it's the wrong side of town and I can't afford time-wise or energy-wise to become a full-time carer. They are emotionally quite hard work too, if you get what I mean without putting too fine a point on it, so a few hours at a time is about my limit. I've been doing it for three years now, and some days it drives me to distraction.

Anyway, their GP has referred them to social services as he has realised the state they are in, and we are having a visit from a social services co-ordinator tomorrow afternoon, to assess what, if anything, can be done to support them.

Well one of the things we were hoping for is doing some of the heavier housework, as I have back pain and the beginnings of arthritis (I'm 54 on Tuesday ). However the lady from s/s told me on the phone that they don't provide housework help, just personal care. I already bath mum and do their laundry, shopping, hoovering etc., but the place is in a bit of a state and the paintwork needs cleaning, the utility floor needs a good scrub etc.

So I was surprised to read that where you work, they do provide help with housework. Could it be that it is a different department from the personal care lot, or what?

Between my two and f-i-l, me and my husband hardly see eachother nowadays. I worked for 33 years until leaving to help care for my folks, but I never expected "retirement" to be like this .

margaretclare

Hi Babe

Direct payments, AFAIK, are meant to be so that the person themself pays for what help they need. In your case, what you need is housework, cleaning etc done rather than the personal care. If your parents were awarded direct payments these could be used to pay a local cleaning agency. These exist all over the place - have a look in your local Yellow Pages.

Best wishes

Aunty Margaret

jockettuk

yes was a nightmare but it took so long to get sorted most were exhausted by it all.. hope you get it all sorted and do what aunty says and get somehelp in if only for once a week to help clean and tidy the house..