Hidden unemployed

donaldtramp

Speaking about this at work today.

Does anyone have any idea of the "hidden unemployed". I see 2 million headline, but I know Gordon has "hidden" a couple of folk.That is the ones Brown has moved "off balance sheet".

Incapacity, incapable etc.

Any numbers?

mewbie_2

donaldtramp wrote: »

I know Gordon has "hidden" a couple of folk.That is the ones Brown has moved "off balance sheet".

He's hidden two unemployed people? Where is he hiding them? At number 10?

lynzpower

There are loads:

the ones who dont or cant sign on as thier wives/ partners are earning IRO 100 a week nad its too much for them to claim
those who are self employed- or were and not entitled
those who have more than 16k in savings and alas would rather keep away from the system for the time being

kabayiri

There are plenty, for the reasons stated.

As discussed on another thread, its easier to count the ones in work. Soon, it will be the quicker option

amcluesent

Yep, 2M unemployed counted, approx. another 6M of working age idle on IB, not seeking, on the scrap heap at 45 etc. etc.

zedyy

how about all those on government schemes like new deal? they are off the books and in "training"

baileysbattlebus

lynzpower wrote: »

There are loads:

the ones who dont or cant sign on as thier wives/ partners are earning IRO 100 a week nad its too much for them to claim
those who are self employed- or were and not entitled
those who have more than 16k in savings and alas would rather keep away from the system for the time being

people will be entitled to contributions based JSA if they become unemployed and their partner works, it's not means tested - you have to have paid the right amount of NI at the right time. Not impacted by savings.

If they haven't you can get income based JSA - but that is means tested - so if partner works and earns over a certain amount, or you have £16k savings, you don't get anything.

I'm not sure if in the jobless figure it is only people who claim and get JSA who get counted - but even if you aren't entitled to anything you can still sign on and get your NI contributions credited. I don't know if they get counted.

And obviously the sick and incapacitated don't get counted - but you don't go from being unemployed to incapacity benefit I wouldn't have thought. You'd have to be signed of sick first for so many weeks then move onto a longer term benefit -

But I'm no expert - they do say the number of people not working is about 4 million.

You have about 2 million sick and disabled, who get benefits. Then you have lone parents who don't work and get benefits, about a half million, then you have carers who don't work but receive carers allowance. Then you have our 2 million unemployed.

But what classed as hidden unemployed I wouldn't like to say. The figure has to be in the sick and disabled number. But some people are genuinely sick and some people really are disabled.

Someone will likely know what proportion of them are scroungers!!!!

mrstinchcombe

Do the figures include the 80k people in prison? They all add up

olly300

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

people will be entitled to contributions based JSA if they become unemployed and their partner works, it's not means tested - you have to have paid the right amount of NI at the right time. Not impacted by savings.

If they haven't you can get income based JSA - but that is means tested - so if partner works and earns over a certain amount, or you have £16k savings, you don't get anything.

I'm not sure if in the jobless figure it is only people who claim and get JSA who get counted - but even if you aren't entitled to anything you can still sign on and get your NI contributions credited. I don't know if they get counted.

And obviously the sick and incapacitated don't get counted - but you don't go from being unemployed to incapacity benefit I wouldn't have thought. You'd have to be signed of sick first for so many weeks then move onto a longer term benefit -

But I'm no expert - they do say the number of people not working is about 4 million.

You have about 2 million sick and disabled, who get benefits. Then you have lone parents who don't work and get benefits, about a half million, then you have carers who don't work but receive carers allowance. Then you have our 2 million unemployed.

But what classed as hidden unemployed I wouldn't like to say. The figure has to be in the sick and disabled number. But some people are genuinely sick and some people really are disabled.

Someone will likely know what proportion of them are scroungers!!!!

You forgot people like:
1. NEETs
2. People 55 and over who are forced to take their pension
3. Students, though this use to affect the summer unemployment figures

Also speaking to people in the past who could sign on and be counted in the figures but couldn't claim anything due to partner working, most of them didn't bother due to the attitude of job centre staff.

One of the reasons I think the jobless figures went up a lot this month is that people have begun to use up their savings and realise they will need help with mortgage/rent.

Graham_Devon

lynzpower wrote: »

There are loads:

the ones who dont or cant sign on as thier wives/ partners are earning IRO 100 a week nad its too much for them to claim
those who are self employed- or were and not entitled
those who have more than 16k in savings and alas would rather keep away from the system for the time being

Also those who by claiming will effect partners DLA income, I know I have heard this a few times.

The numbers of part time workers, topped up by benefits and not working over 16 hours is in the millions.

These are classed as employed, but are actually more dependant on the benefits system.

ad44downey

donaldtramp wrote: »

Speaking about this at work today.

Does anyone have any idea of the "hidden unemployed". I see 2 million headline, but I know Gordon has "hidden" a couple of folk.That is the ones Brown has moved "off balance sheet".

Incapacity, incapable etc.

Any numbers?

The true unemployment figure is about 6-7 million when you include the nearly 3 million on sickness benefits,etc.