Problem with tenant

jon_boy75

i want to know how it can possibly cost £600 to clean a house? Have you seen the receipt?

clutton_2

i got a huge house cleaned for £125 a couple of months back

he is taking the mick

instruct your agent to issue a Section 21 Notice immediately, if they can, and get him out sson as you can. Reading a Section 21 notice will Deffinitely focus his attention ....

aerial and showere were your responsibility

roscolabri

The plot thickens...

The tenant was supposed to drop in the rent that he owed on the Monday, but didn't because he is now complaining that the shower is either boiling hot or too cold.

I think it's unbelieveable. I'm going to be reimbursing him for the whole £600 (it will come off from this months rent when he finally pays it) cleaning bill which I shouldn't have to do and now he's still refusing to pay his rent.

Does he still have a right to withhold his rent even though I am trying to get things sorted a.s.a.p?

I'm quite tempted to also say that he can forget about the £600 off his rent (if it's possible to do that, I don't know. Nothing was signed just a verbal agreement if he was to drop the check in on monday) especially as he got the place cleaned without permission from the agents or myself.

princeofpounds

Does he still have a right to withhold his rent even though I am trying to get things sorted a.s.a.p?

No, tenants never have a right to withold rent as such. They can offset repairs against it however if they follow the correct procedure. They also do not have to pay rent in situations where it might not be clear who the landlord is (for instance, not giving an England and Wales contact address).

The only way you can recover non-paid rent is a) claim on the deposit and b) sue and instruct bailiffs when you win (or attachment of earnings, or whatever)

Assuming you are sure there is nothing wrong with the shower, I'd evict and sue for the outstanding rent. I'd withdraw the £600 promise (don't even refer to it in writing at all - it never happened!). At least it leaves them with that liability. Do it ASAP because it will take a couple of months most probably. Issue section 21 and potentially Section 8 if he is far enough behind on his rent.

The middle ground is to get an agreement to send a repairman - if there is a problem, you pay. If there isn't - the tenant pays the call-out charge. Get the tenant to make the call to bring in the repairman in so he chases him if the tenant doesn't agree.

ruggedtoast

He doesnt have any legal right to withhold rent at all.

roscolabri

I'm not sure if he's correct about the shower, my agents are going round tomorrow with a plumber to check it out and I'll follow princeofpounds advice on that particular problem.

I'm annoyed that I was willing to let him off £600 if he had handed his rent in but he failed to do that, and as you two mention, he's not even within his right to withold. I think I'll withdraw the £600 offer right away.

I wonder what my estate agents are doing in all of this, they should be a hell of a lot more stricter with the tenant rather than getting me to keep the tenant sweet.

DawnW

I would agree with others on this thread, that this tenant is taking the !!!! You are not liable to pay £600 for cleaning, and the tenant has no right to withhold the rent. Your LA sounds completely useless - what are you paying him for? You are paying him a management fee, aren't you, and it wasn't just an agreement to find and credit check a tenant?

In your position I would evict as soon as legally possible using the proper legal methods of course. Make sure you get the wording on your S21 /S8 correct and that they are served at the correct time. If this tenant is being a pain like this at this stage, he or she is likely to be a pain to get out.

Good luck!

roscolabri

I just got off the phone to the agents and grilled them about the situation. Apparently the £600 isn't just for cleaning but also a little compensation due to the fact that he had previous problems with the shower before February.

The tenant has also taken legal advice (according to my agent) and that he was within his right to withold payment due to a lack of service. My agent then said that if I was to evict the tenant, then the tenant would probably win the case because of the lack of a shower and that would be more expensive for me.

I should just mention that the tenant moved in on the 1 Dec 08 and apparently he's had problems since the get-go.

Surely if the shower wasn't working before Feb he should have reported it? The way I see it is that I can't fix a problem until it's reported, and that was in Feb. As soon as I knew about it I set the wheels in motion with my agents and various plumbers, and yes, it did take till March to complete but I can't do anything about that. The only way I held up the job was that I didn't want to accept the 1st quote due to it being expensive and then asked for another, which I'm within my right to do.

He also complained about lack of any hot water, even though the plumber stated that there was hot water coming through the taps before he fixed the shower.

I told my agents to withdraw the £600 and they said that if I did that, the tenant might refuse to pay the rent again and then take it to court and win due to the whole shower situation. I'm fuming so much that I'm shaking lol.

One more thing, my agents also stated that they wouldn't normally get involved with finding quotes and such for the shower...so if that's the case, what exactly am I getting for paying them to fully manage the property. It's supposed to be stress free for me, yeah right!


Anyways, I appreciate the coments and advice. I guess I just have to wait until tomorrow to see if the shower is still a problem.

Ulfar

I am going to be devils advocate and take the side of the tenant on this one.

If your LA is supposed to be managing this property fully what is going on. All of the things you have mentioned are maintenance issues that should be sorted without too much fuss.

There is also the issue of the different stories you and your tenant have been getting from the LA.

The LA are right about one thing taking a month to fix a shower is unacceptable, given the importance the housing act puts on this sort of service.

princeofpounds

If the agents 'fully manage' the property they most certainly should be doing all the quotes etc and only contacting you for sign-off on decisions and information updates. Begs the question what you are paying for indeed!

Be careful on the £600 - the actions of your agent are inferred to you, and it sounds like they have already agreed some understanding with your tenant given the way you put their comments.

The tenant's legal advice is rubbish. He cannot withold rent (though you can only claim it through deposit and the courts so in practical terms he can for a while). He can only offset it under the procedure in Lee-Parker vs Izzet 1971.

Also rubbish is the agent's advice on 'winning cases' thanks on eviction. If you issue a section 21 notice it will ensure the tenant has to leave at the end of the fixed term (or 6 months if longer) no matter what. It is a 'non-discretionary' ground.

A section 8 for rent arrears (or other non-tenantlike behaviour - there are several grounds possible) could be quicker, but requires two months rent overdue (NOT arrears, it's different) and is discretionary, so the tenants might get some breathing space thanks to the dispute from the judge but would still have to leave under the 21 eventually, and if the arrears continue after the shower is fully fixed then they'd probably be made to leave in any case.

The only thing that the tenant 'could take you to court over' is failure to meet your obligations under section 11 of the housing act regarding repairs. Ordinary repairs they can't take you to court over, but they can ask the council to prepare a repairing order or they can do it themselves and offset rent and could then defend if you tried to claim that rent from them in court.

The special situation is heating and hot water - you have to provide and 'reasonably' quickly repair both or face criminal prosecution. A faulty shower for a couple of weeks would *not* be unreasonable. If they had hot water from the taps for the bath, it's just a joke.

I do not think your agent is very bright or professional. I think if this shower thing does not work out then your relationship with the tenant is unreasonable.

Deal with the shower. Issue section 21 and maybe 8 if you ever get grounds to do so. Sack your agents as set out in your T&Cs. Ensure deposit is properly protected and prescribed information was given or you cannot evict. Conduct an inspection with a witness and document state of flat in case T damages anything. In particular, verify functioning hot water and heating, and take evidence. This will stop T claiming these things were not working. Communicate only in writing once you get to legal stage.