Ooh err ... what a fine mess!

ChampagneCharlie

A-ha! So that how it works ... so I'm going to spend a considerable amount of free'd up income on an IPA then?

This usually lasts three years I'm told.

CC

JCS1

I would expect the emergency fund of £10 to be disallowed, and that you will have to provide proof for the £500 p/m petrol and the £100 buildings insurance. There may be a few other figures that the examiner considers higher than normal and that they would try and reduce, so you might have to argue some of the amounts (thinking of your utilities)

IPA lasts for 36 months, but thing to remember is that they can be varied if circumstances change.

Lensman_2

Sorry CC, I missed that bit.

Yes, on the face of it you will lose the Shropshire property and the mortgage payment gets added to your surplus. Now standing at £2454.00 70% = £1,717.80 to the OR.

However, since you will stop paying the mortgage the extra burden on your current expenditure is £1717.80 to the OR minus the current mortgage of £1360,00 = £357.80

I think.

Give me a while to check my reasoning but I think it works.....

ChampagneCharlie

Hi Everyone incl good to see you back in the loop Lensman

Lensman - if you calc that I will be paying back £1718 or thereabouts per month back to the OR, now is the time I suspect for me to make a final take- it-or-leave-it offer to my creditors.

I believe this is "approved practice" before seeking BR - is this correct? I'm considering offering something like 5p in the £. If they reject this (as expected) then off to the BR court I go ... but considering the awful economic news I'm guessing they might, just might, re-consider.

Anyway, how's your situ Lensman? Do you have your own thread like this one?

Slumdog CC

Lensman_2

Hello Slumdog CC.

I have done another SOA for you assuming BR - plase check for mistakes. Your surplus appears to be £1,522. The OR will want 70% of this, which is £1065.40

You will not be paying £1710 in mortgage or loan payments so you look to be better off by about £650 a month post BR.

I assume that the £500 for diesel is supportable?

You could really do with some proper advice here CC. There are some links in my signature.

Yes, I am having a good day today thanks. Full of the joys of Spring.

I do not have my own thread. Nobody wants to read a serial which gets a new addition only every six months... My first post is here:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1351879

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 3600
Partners monthly income after tax....... 400
Benefits................................ 0
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 4000

Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 0
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 123
Electricity............................. 150
Gas..................................... 10
Oil..................................... 245
Water rates............................. 58
Telephone (land line)................... 40
Mobile phone............................ 40
TV Licence.............................. 13
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 20
Groceries etc. ......................... 500
Clothing................................ 85
Petrol/diesel........................... 500
Road tax................................ 14
Car Insurance........................... 60
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 70
Car parking............................. 10
Other travel............................ 25
Childcare/nursery....................... 50
Other child related expenses............ 20
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 25
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 20
Buildings insurance..................... 100
Contents insurance...................... 25
Life assurance ......................... 40
Other insurance......................... 20
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0
Haircuts................................ 30
Entertainment........................... 0
Holiday................................. 100
Emergency fund.......................... 10
Child Maintenance....................... 75
Total monthly expenses.................. 2478


Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 0
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 0

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts

Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Total unsecured debts..........0.........0.........-


Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 4,000
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 2,478
Available for debt repayments........... 1,522
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0
Amount left after debt repayments....... 1,522

Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 0
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -0
Net Assets.............................. 0

Created using the SOA calculator at www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using Firefox browser.

ChampagneCharlie

Hi Lensman (or Jim - I read your first thread, thanks)

Thanks for doing the SOA, that's very kind of you.

I have been speaking to CCCS and intend to do so again (+ the friendly insolvency lawyer) now that I have got to this stage.

Are you still sailing towards BR or are you in a holding pattern?

I have such up's and down's ... todays lovely weather seems to lull me into a false sense of optimism!

Anyway, keep in touch - I'm not a regular 'poster' here as you can see, but I do try and keep monitoring.

ATB

CC.

ChampagneCharlie

I'm back in purgatory again - and all because I've had an 'update' appointement on the phone with CCCS since my re-employ.

Those of you who have had the stamina to read all of the previous posts will already understand my convoluted and complicated position. To summarise:

• I have debts nerarly totalling £0.5m, £426,000 secured on my property in Shropshire and £65k unsecured.
• My Shropshire gaff was previously valued at £550k but the property market being what it is, is now more like £400k (if I'm lucky), might be lower...
• My dependent mother lives in the above.
• I actually live with my wife & family in Derbyshire, in a property belonging to my wife with no mortgage but now with diminished income.
• I was made redundant in Sept 08 ... but lately managed to get re-employed in Feb 09 - which has muddied the waters - because my income is not as big as previously and I cannot resume all the payments again.

So, having updated the CCCS on my change of circumstances, they now think that BR would be a risky option for my circumstances. Why?

1. They think that the OR will deem my living with my wife and citing the expenses of supporting my family will be considered of beneficial interest. CCCS even maintain this opinion when I told them that a) my debts are mine alone and b) we have always kept our finances separate in case things went tits up (like now) & c) I took recent independent legal advice on this particular point and was advised to the contrary about the BI.
2. CCCS consider that an IVA might be imposed on top of BR because of the surplus monies becoming available - ceasing paying for the mortgage on the Shropshire cottage + the unsecured debts - will free up sufficient income to do so, currently estimated around £1500 or so.

CCCS' solution is:

A) Don't go BR now - I'll lose £300 p/mth income plus I will be subject to subjective assesment of my case by the OR with potentially unpalatable consequences (ie. my wife's estate being "sucked in" to my situation).

Negotiate with the Bristol & West by selling the Shropshire gaff for as much as possible, capitalising the £8k arrears at the same time. If there is a surplus all the better, if not, the balance to be added to the unsecured pile.

C) Come to a new payment arrangements with all the remaining creditors, if necessary, re-addressing the BR issue if forced to.

Its all very confusing, though by setting it all out here it is becoming alittle clearer. However, I am a firm believer that many brains are better than one, so I'd appreciate any help from the forum with their thoughts. The nice man Alan at CCCS did agree that mine was one of the more complicated situations...

So, the 'panels' solution is? .....

Anticipatory thanks
CC.

fiveyearplan

Well you know you will lose the Shropshire home so thats taken care of - only problem is what to do with your dear mother (I hope you didn't forget Mother's Day yesterday!). The only thing I can see getting in your way is your deemed BI in your wife's home. If that could be guaranteed not to be at risk then I think BR would be the solution.

Let me get one point straight though - are you saying your debts are £426k secured on house plus £65 not secured? So if you were by a miracle able to sell for £400k your debts would then be £26 + £65? If that is the case what would you decide to do? With your salary would you be able to come to an agreement with creditors and pay them off?

Lensman_2

Hi CC. Good to see you back. And good to see the progress on your knowledge.

Some thoughts, as follows:
A). The issue of BI is not connected to the timing of BR. You are currently paying for professional advice and have the ear of someone in the CCCS. You should be able to get a better view on this from them on how to mitigate this risk. There is also a current discussuion about BI which may help to shed some light on it for you.
Convenience clicky
All good. Start with some valuations. 3 estate agents.Tell them all that you are getting other valuations done. It keeps them sharp... 2 of them will lie through their teeth to get your business. The third will be the lowest because they are honest. Use that one for decision making. If the lowest comes in under the outstanding for Bristol and West, start the fingernail diet post haste.
C) To enter an informal agreement, creditors worth 75% of the balance must agree to the proposal. But I bet that you already knew that.

Good luck CC and keep us posted.

Jim

So_Sad_Angel

Hi CC

I think that CCCS have got it spot on....you have income & the current financial downturn is working in your favour at the mo.

Come to agreements with all creditors based on what you can afford....you have income & can afford to pay something so at the moment you are not at the `last resort` stage.

No mtge co is wanting to have yet another repo on their books & are/should be very amenable to any offer ( ask them to capitalize arrears onto balance to repay over term)....at least until this recession starts to ease.

Try & get a DMP in place for now & see how the situation progresses....BR is not something to rush into...you have options here at least for now.

Keep posting, build knowledge & if BR is the last resort then at least you will be well educated in the technicalities.

Angexx ( also in Derbyshire!)