12+2 day letter and 30 day letter -- are they still valid?

nickfletcher

Merlinexcalibur wrote: »

Hello, thanks for that. I just realized I misread your name BTW. lol

No problem.

nickfletcher

AverageJoe wrote: »

I just wondered how claims firms deal with it and conclude it - there must be some kind of correspondence between lender and client that results in the admission from the lender that the account is officially unenforceable, otherwise it would appear that the client has defaulted on it and will get stuffed etc.... that cant be right - can it?

AJ

For an insider's view see these links to ConsumerWiki:-
Debt Collectors: On the Inside
Debt Collectors: On the Inside - Q & A's

GeorgeUK

An interesting read that, but don't agree with everyhting that was mentioned there.

If you have not received a default and are contacted by a DCA, why tell them? Without a default, neither they or the original creditor can take court action. This would be in your favour rather than saying "actually, you can't take me to court right now as i haven't received a default. Can you send me one please?"

The £1 payment for a CCA is for the fee only and should not come off the balance of the debt owed. If you made a payment towards the debt, even this £1, then the statute barred clock would restart.

Calling you 3 times a day can only be stopped if you have proven the debt is non existant? Nope - you can request that all communication be in writing only. They should be aware of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, the Wireless Telegraphy Act (1949) and if they still call you after you have requested they don't, the Communications Act (2003) s.127

You are not required to provide copies of payslips or even a SOA. They are not required to accept a repayment plan either which is why a SOA is useful. I would not send even a copy of a payslip with the information blanked out.

Interesting to see from that perspective though.

nickfletcher

GeorgeUK wrote: »

An interesting read that, but don't agree with everyhting that was mentioned there.

It's worth noting that the linked articles merely describe what actually happened in that insider's experience. That doesn't mean that it was legal. ;-)

I am coming to realise that in reality debt collectors probably get away with an awful lot that isn't actually legal. They do whatever they can get away with.

GeorgeUK wrote: »

If you have not received a default and are contacted by a DCA, why tell them? Without a default, neither they or the original creditor can take court action.

As I understand it the ideal purpose of asking for a default notice is to prove that you do not owe them any money.

If you really do owe them money then it seems to me that asking for the default notice is probably still a reasonable thing to do if you cannot avoid speaking to them as it may delay or derail events.

It's worth noting that the lack of a default notice won't necessarily stop them taking court action. It's just that the lack of a valid default notice is a defence against the action.

GeorgeUK wrote: »

The £1 payment for a CCA is for the fee only and should not come off the balance of the debt owed. If you made a payment towards the debt, even this £1, then the statute barred clock would restart.

Yes, I noticed that precularity too. I suspect they pretend that it's a repayment of the alleged debt precisely because they can then claim that the alleged debtor was admitting the debt!

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Nope - you can request that all communication be in writing only. They should be aware of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, the Wireless Telegraphy Act (1949) and if they still call you after you have requested they don't, the Communications Act (2003) s.127

Very useful to know.

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Interesting to see from that perspective though.

Indeed.

GeorgeUK

nickfletcher wrote: »

As I understand it the ideal purpose of asking for a default notice is to prove that you do not owe them any money.

If you really do owe them money then it seems to me that asking for the default notice is probably still a reasonable thing to do if you cannot avoid speaking to them as it may delay or derail events.

It's worth noting that the lack of a default notice won't necessarily stop them taking court action. It's just that the lack of a valid default notice is a defence against the action.

Not sure about that Nick.

You would request a CCA (Customer credit agreement) to stop them from being able to enforce the debt.

The default notice must be issued before court action can be taken. This is to notify the debtor that payments have been missed and that they may start court proceedings.

A default notice is a formal letter sent to you by a lender or creditor if you are in arrears with your account. Creditors and lenders are legally obliged to advise you formally in writing that you have missed payments.

http://www.payplan.com/debt-library/debt-management-default-notices.php


I hope this doesn't sound like i'm getting at you Nick - i really appreciate those links you posted. It's good for people to be able to pre-empt what one of these callers may be saying or prepare for how they should deal with it. It's just some of the advice does not sit too well with me and i'm hoping to give the full picture of why certain things should or shouldn't be requested.

nickfletcher

GeorgeUK wrote: »

The default notice must be issued before court action can be taken. This is to notify the debtor that payments have been missed and that they may start court proceedings.

I totally agree that that is what should happen legally speaking. What I am getting at is that there is no physical barrier which prevents an incompetent or rapacious debt collector (or their solicitor) from beginning court action without a default notice having been issued or without the debt collector having the correct statutory paperwork from their client (the creditor).

Even if the court action is dismissed for lack of supporting paperwork, there is still no physical barrier to prevent court action from being begun.

Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge it is possible that County Courts won't notice that there's no default notice (or other statutory paperwork) unless or until the defendant brings it up as a defence, hopefully before the case actually gets to court. Once the defendant highlights this issue then the case should be dismissed or automatically found in favour of the defendant, as I understand it.

All I'm really saying is that, legally speaking, things are exactly as you say. Thus that is how things should be in reality. In practice, however, creditors, debt collectors, and their solicitors do not necessarily adhere to the law and, in some cases, just do anything that they can get away with.

Of course, if they don't adhere with the law then this is great for the alleged debtor: The alleged debtor can then use the creditor's/debt collector's/solicitor's errors against them.

GeorgeUK wrote: »

I hope this doesn't sound like i'm getting at you Nick

Not at all.

GeorgeUK wrote: »

It's good for people to be able to pre-empt what one of these callers may be saying or prepare for how they should deal with it.

Absolutely! Knowing both the law and how one's 'opponents' think behind the scenes is invaluable in protecting one's rights and paying no more than that which is legitimately owed (assuming anything is owed at all).