12+2 day letter and 30 day letter -- are they still valid?

nickfletcher

I understand that the Consumer Credit Act was modified quite recently and so one or both of the "12+2 day" and "30 day" letters may no longer be totally correct or valid, legally speaking.

Can anyone tell me if the "12+2 day" letter and/or the "30 day" letter are still valid and legally correct?

If one or both of them are now incorrect is there a new suggested wording for them?

I've reproduced the common versions of the letters below for reference.

"12+2 Day" letter:

Dear sirs

Re:−
Your Ref:

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose £1 in payment of the statutory fee.

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities, therefore if I do not receive evidence that I owe your company any monies by 20 December 2007, I will have no hesitation in passing your details to the Office of Fair Trading.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Regarding your threat that a Doorstep Collector will call the owner of this property is denying you or anybody working on your behalf access onto their estate or grounds in relation to this disputed debt, should you or any agent acting for you attempt to gain access to the estate or its grounds, then you will be ignoring your denial of access and the owner of (enter address) will take legal steps to sue both you and or your agents for trespass, please also note that having a letterbox on the property gives you or anyone working on your behalf neither implied nor expressed rights to enter the properties boundaries, again any instances of trespass WILL lead the property owner to sue both yourselves or any agents working on your behalf.

Yours faithfully

The "30 day" letter (first version):

I refer to my letter dated {enter date} which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices on {enter delivery date}.

You have failed to acknowledge this request in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the letter or by supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

In my letter of the {enter date} I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment. In addition a full statement of my account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account from the time {debt agency name} purchased this account, along with any other documents mentioned in the credit agreement.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on {enter date} and {enter date} respectively.

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and
(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore on {enter offence date} this account became unenforceable at law and no further payment will be made by myself to the account, as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, i do not acknowledge any debt to {debt agency name}.

I require the following action from {debt agency name} :

1. All payments made to date to {debt agency name} for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

2. Removal of all defaults entered by {debt agency name}. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

3. I look forward to compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to be offered for the processing of my data in the manner it has been done over the past number of years.

4. After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by myself, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force {debt agency name} or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

The "30 day" letter (second version):

FORMAL NOTICE - ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

Ref: ****************

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way.

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your
legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

These limits have expired.

As you are no doubt aware section the Consumer Credit Act states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

And

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counter-claim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

Please supply me with a copy of your complaints procedure in writing.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

Merlinexcalibur

Hi, Rick. No, the 30 day timit letter is no longer valid as you correctly point out. The letter you need, if you want it that is, is online eg consumerwiki or available through MSE somewhere. No, I never know where so can't be of any further assistance.

nickfletcher

Thanks for the information.

The "12+2 day" letter is available at http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php/Consumer_Credit_Act_template

Merlinexcalibur

Hello, thanks for that. I just realized I misread your name BTW. lol

AverageJoe_4

Hi - can someone please tell me then, what exactly the lenders are now entitled to do. I was under the impression that they have 12 days and a further 28 days to comply - is that no longer the case??

AJ

Merlinexcalibur

Wasn't that self explanatory or something from the above posts?

The new letter is here for anyone who still doesn't realize yet:

Dear Sirs

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Even says in the letter 12 days (sighs). lol

AverageJoe_4

No. You said that the 30 day time limit letter was not valid - Im am unsure if the actual rule is different or if in someway his letter should be different...

Sorry, I am not an expert.

10past6

AverageJoe wrote: »

Sorry, I am not an expert.

Joe, they have 12 days to comply, allowing an extra 2 days for postage = 14 days.

HTH

AverageJoe_4

Forgive my unbeleivable ignorance, but I didn't really see an obvious difference - they are both saying the same thing prety much - "give me my agreement in 12 days or its going to be unenforceable".

So is the extra 28/30 days time frame abolished and it JUST comes down to the first 12 days..?

I know how to write a letter (sighs) but I am asking what the rules change is.

Is that not obvious from my direct question..? (sighs again)

AJ

10past6

AverageJoe wrote: »

So is the extra 28/30 days time frame abolished

Yes

AverageJoe wrote: »

and it JUST comes down to the first 12 days..?

Yes

Simple as ABC

AverageJoe_4

10past6 wrote: »

Yes

Yes

Simple as ABC

Thanks - now that DOES answer my question - better for the consumer then. I was under the impression from the first posts that the actual letter wording was somehow "in valid" - hence the confusion.

One more thing - this new rule, does it apply to all CCA or just agreements that were signed after April 2007..?

Of course, if the agreement concerned dates back to 2001 for example, does the lender still have the additional month ..?

(I like to be through - apologies in advanced)

AJ