Cameron 'sorry' for being asleep at the wheel

baby_boomer

Government - with the research of the entire civil service, including the Treasury, at its disposal, has a massive advantage over the opposition in terms of economic forecasting - and every other type of forecast.

Oppositions have to operate on a shoestring by comparison.

1echidna

He didn't look or sound very genuinely sorry as he made his pronouncements. I am with the school of thought that this was a politically orientated tactic designed to put Brown on the spot.

Graham_Devon

1echidna wrote: »

He didn't look or sound very genuinely sorry as he made his pronouncements. I am with the school of thought that this was a politically orientated tactic designed to put Brown on the spot.

He's just lost his son. Give the man a break.

I have seen you are a Brown supporter. So I wouldnt really expect you to agree with him. But what is it you would like him to do? Get on his knees with a tear running down his cheek?

You'd only then find something else saying "look at this man, not serious enough to run our country".

When people are scrutinising apologies on "they dont look sorry enough" in an environment where the actual PM is being advised by his own peers to apologise, but refuses, I think personally, its a saddening endiciment of how WE actually see politics.

You know what? It's NOT all browns fault. People were stupid and foolish enough to vote this party in and say stupid stuff like the above against the opposition party. These people are there to run our country. Not show emotions on national TV to pay favour to the populace.

Dan:_4

The Tories, like Labour, are a disgrace.

I will not be voting for either.

nickmason

baby_boomer wrote: »

Government - with the research of the entire civil service, including the Treasury, at its disposal, has a massive advantage over the opposition in terms of economic forecasting - and every other type of forecast.

Oppositions have to operate on a shoestring by comparison.

This is the bit that amazes me - I am flabbergasted that we have a huge civil service and still the policy ideas come out of think-tanks (not just right-wing ones, although mainly) and then get adopted by government.

I know that the civil service has some v bright people in it. But somehow it seems to suppress innovation. Reason #43 why I'm a Tory.

1echidna

Graham_Devon wrote: »

He's just lost his son. Give the man a break.

I have seen you are a Brown supporter. So I wouldnt really expect you to agree with him. But what is it you would like him to do? Get on his knees with a tear running down his cheek?

You'd only then find something else saying "look at this man, not serious enough to run our country".

When people are scrutinising apologies on "they dont look sorry enough" in an environment where the actual PM is being advised by his own peers to apologise, but refuses, I think personally, its a saddening endiciment of how WE actually see politics.

You know what? It's NOT all browns fault. People were stupid and foolish enough to vote this party in and say stupid stuff like the above against the opposition party. These people are there to run our country. Not show emotions on national TV to pay favour to the populace.

OK give the man a break because he has just lost his son. But he should be taking that break if he needs it not indulging in rough and tumble politics. If he is back in the fray he can expect to be critisized (and I suppose praised from those whose automatic reaction is to always praise him).

Actually I am not a 'Rochdale Pioneer' who is on automatic piolot defending the gov't but there are more here on this board who automatically attack the labour party from a position of dogma and that imbalance sometimes irritates me.

I happen to be genuinely worried about the amount the gov't is borrowing coupled with high personal and corporate debt. Equally worried however that a conservative gov't would not be fair about the way it shared the burden of trying to get us out of this mess.

I don't see anything wrong in wanting someone to be genuine when they make an apology.

nickmason

1echidna wrote: »

I happen to be genuinely worried about the amount the gov't is borrowing coupled with high personal and corporate debt. Equally worried however that a conservative gov't would not be fair about the way it shared the burden of trying to get us out of this mess.

I don't know if it can be done fairly - by anyone. I think that that's half the problem - there are loads of people on here who are understandably upset that it looks as if the (probably correct) government resolution to this will be to screw the savers and reward the reckless. Which is pretty damned difficult in moral or fairness terms, but is being sold to us as being for the greater good.

I have yet to discover a case for redistribution that does satisfy fairness. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" doesn't cut the mustard as a piece of policy even if it's ideologically (to some) attractive.

This is the difficulty with boom and bust - however much Brown wanted to have destroyed it (a socialist ideal) - as long as it exists, then some people will prosper more in the boom years (for instance the much maligned BTL'ers) and then in the bust years they might benefit from a rescue. So risk is rewarded*. The cycle continues.

* Of course, and this is hugely unfashionable, but those that prosper almost invariably pay more tax in absolute terms than those who don't, so it could be argued that it is fair that they should be rescued more in the bust years - they have paid more. However, as I say, this is so unfashionable - and so antithetical to the "from each according to his ability" concept - that no one dares say it these days, or is allowed to without some pretty heinous accusations.

shuze

nickmason wrote: »

* Of course, and this is hugely unfashionable, but those that prosper almost invariably pay more tax in absolute terms than those who don't, so it could be argued that it is fair that they should be rescued more in the bust years - they have paid more. However, as I say, this is so unfashionable - and so antithetical to the "from each according to his ability" concept - that no one dares say it these days, or is allowed to without some pretty heinous accusations.

Really, I can't let that go.

Our tax system overwhelmingly favours those who inherit, rather than those who work for what they have, and the Tories lead the way in protecting this system. It is a dismal failure of the current govt that they gave in to media pressure to raise the IHT threshold. The same media, by the way, that is overwhelmingly right-leaning.

nickmason

shuze wrote: »

Really, I can't let that go.

Our tax system overwhelmingly favours those who inherit, rather than those who work for what they have.

Sorry - that's absolutely right, I was thinking in terms of tax on income.

I have never been able to understand the legitimacy of tax on donations; which is essentially what inheritance tax is. I've debated this to death with various left-wing friends, and we typically conclude that I put the family above "society". This invariably leads to mis-quotes of Thatcher, of course...and also the ranking game "how do I see myself":

British first, then Dorset, English, European last.
(My love for my family operates in a different spectrum.)

shuze

nickmason wrote: »

Sorry - that's absolutely right, I was thinking in terms of tax on income.

I have never been able to understand the legitimacy of tax on donations; which is essentially what inheritance tax is. I've debated this to death with various left-wing friends, and we typically conclude that I put the family above "society". This invariably leads to mis-quotes of Thatcher, of course...and also the ranking game "how do I see myself":

British first, then Dorset, English, European last.
(My love for my family operates in a different spectrum.)

I've had the same debate with various people. I realise my view is generally unpopular, but I do regard untaxed inheritance as being effectively a tax on work. I know that many people reading this won't agree.

In my world view, my family is part of "society", and I'd assert that we all suffer in the long run if we don't reward hard work.

By the way you are blessed to live in Dorset, Europe