Prices of Hot Water Cylinders?

FemaleGamer

We have just had our shower refurbished (professionally, as my OH isn't a handyman type) and went for a Hansgrohe 'Raindance' shower with all the pipework and massive pump necessary. Unfortunately we weren't made aware of the need for a bigger hot water cylinder until work had started and it was pointed out that our cylinder is a relatively small one. We apparently ideally need a 1200 size one...whatever that is.
So currently we get about 6/7 mins of hot shower before the water temperature drops to cold. This refurb has cost us a few quid :eek: and the thought of the further cost of a new cylinder and the fitting charges is depressing.

Does anyone here know if there's any difference between cylinders? Where to find them and their prices? And maybe whether it would be better to get Brit Gas to do it, or the professional bathroom company, or even an independent plumber if we can find one available (an almost impossible task) ?

ariba10

The cost of the work in changing a cylinder (thats providing there is room for a larger one) would be dearer than the cylinder itself.

I would have thought 6/7 Mins would be enough for a shower but it is for you to decide what you need.

Moss5

You could try changing the shower rose to a type with less holes/smaller holes to reduce the volume flow-rate.

FemaleGamer

ariba10 wrote:

The cost of the work in changing a cylinder (thats providing there is room for a larger one) would be dearer than the cylinder itself.
I would have thought 6/7 Mins would be enough for a shower but it is for you to decide what you need.

Yes, 6/7 mins is more than enough for me (and the daughter), but the males of the household like to have loooong showers. Maybe I ought to keep the small cylinder and that'll force them to get real and then the bathroom will be more accessible to us girls! :idea:

_Moss5 wrote:

You could try changing the shower rose to a type with less holes/smaller holes to reduce the volume flow-rate.

The whole point of this new shower is to have an all-encompassing rain-effect of water, so that's out I'm afraid. Thanks though

caveat_emptor

FemaleGamer wrote:

Does anyone here know if there's any difference between cylinders? Where to find them and their prices? And maybe whether it would be better to get Brit Gas to do it, or the professional bathroom company, or even an independent plumber if we can find one available (an almost impossible task) ?

You can have Direct cylinders for water heating only or Indirect where your central heating water heats your domestic hot water. Most systems have indirect and a 117 litre copper cylinder (450mm diameter and 950mm high) will cost about £150. Fitting would be straight forward if new cylinder matches old one in terms of pipe position. If it doesn't then changing the pipework can be tricky.
Go to Screwfix.com for cylinder range.

gavinp

Personally, I would leave it "as is" because if you run a bigger cylinder completely cold, it will take even longer to heat back up again and will use more gas or electric... You also need to ensure that the floor can take the increased weight etc.

We have a high-flow shower pump in our airing cupboard and with the standard cylinder, the hot water is gone in six minutes. It then takes 45 minutes to heat back up again to 60 degrees C and the gas boiler was only serviced a couple of weeks ago...

What is the capacity of the cold water tank ? This is normally listed as more important... we were told we couldn't get an even higher rated pump without replacing the cold tank in the loft with a larger one.

Thanks

Gavin

moneysavingplumber

Any true professional installing any kind of power shower should take account of your hot and cold water supply and advise you accordingly before carrying out the work. Drench-heads incorporating pumps use massive volumes of water.

In my opinion there is a difference in quality between cylinders and personally I will only use Range (IMI) cylinders (grade 3 minimum), I won't use Albion, Copperform, Castle, Telford or any of the other brands. The cheapest place for Range tends to be Grahams or Plumb Center. All cylinders should now be Part L compliant. Such a cylinder will likely to be more efficient than your existing even if it is bigger because the coil will be more efficient. A small cylinder will still need to be re-heated if it is exhausted and if the coil is caked with limescale and the bottom is full of it also, then it will be less efficient still.

If you do choose to have it replaced, don't get the bathroom company back as they failed to check the suitability of your system in the first place and don't deserve any more of your cash in my opinion. I would recommend that you try and find a reputable independent plumber, preferably via recommendation.

FemaleGamer

Thanks for all replies....especially Moneysavingplumber. Us non-members of the plumbing elite wouldn't usually get that useful, unbiased, info on quality of equipment so it will be very helpful when I start looking into replacing the cylinder. Our current one is as old as the house (20+ years) and no doubt will have a fair amount of limescale accumulation in there after all these years. I hadn't thought of that fact before.
The bathroom guys only mentioned the cylinder capacity restriction, so I presume that the water tank in the roof is of sufficient size to cope with a bigger cylinder - especially since they had to run new pipes from it anyway, so they would have known if there was a problem there too.

I'd better start searching for a reputable, and reasonable, plumber then :undecided . Also get the weight-bearing ability of the floor in the airing cupboard checked.

George_Bray

FemaleGamer wrote:

The bathroom guys only mentioned the cylinder capacity restriction, so I presume that the water tank in the roof is of sufficient size to cope with a bigger cylinder

I know someone else introduced the issue of cold water cylinder size. But how is this relevant? I wouldn't think any domestic boiler will be able to heat up the cold water fast enough to effectively replenish the hot water cylinder with hot water and pass it through to the shower within the time it takes to have almost any shower, especially if it is ultra high flow.

Regards
George

moneysavingplumber

The size of cold water storage tank is relevant to the issue as well. With a 3bar pump and a low pressure water main, a 30 gallon tank could easily be exhausted within minutes, leaving the pump vulnerable to damage, and if an Essex flange has been used for the hot supply (which I personally wouldn't recommend for this very reason) there is a danger of scalding and running the cylinder half dry. With a power shower like this one in regular use, I'd be looking for a minimum of 75 gallons personally, preferably 100 providing there is sufficient turnover of water and provision is there to take the weight.