Labour "hugely proud of the progress"

jay3_2

It's funny hearing the bleating from many on this forum about the Labour government. This so-called Labour government has broadly continued the policies of the preceeding Tory governments - with predictable results. The poor will continue to get poorer, the rich will get richer. The likes of Osborne & Mandelson will continue to fraternise with dodgy Russian oligarchs (or whoever they think will chuck some money their way). The whole system has failed, not one political party.

Graham_Devon

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

And lets not forget that during that period you could also argue factually that "Brown has inflated the pound like no other leader" - the exchange rate went $1.40 in June 2001 to a peak of $2.07 in November 2007. And then back again.

Exactly! So do the same.

Exchange rate May $2.07

Exchange rate today $1.41

The fall in percentage terms?

It's all about the timing. And the timing you used was massively in favour of what you were trying to put across and say Jason was wrong.

Lets not forget the period here. This is on roughly one year. Making it far more disasterous than the 20 year period vs ten year period you quoted.

Rochdale_Pioneers

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Exactly! So do the same.

Exchange rate May $2.07

Exchange rate today $1.41

The fall in percentage terms?

It's all about the timing. And the timing you used was massively in favour of what you were trying to put across and say Jason was wrong.

Lets not forget the period here. This is on roughly one year. Making it far more disasterous than the 20 year period vs ten year period you quoted.

At $2+ the pound was hugely over-valued vs the dollar causing howls of pain from exporters. Dropping the value back to the level that barring a few blips it had held for nearly 20 years is not a disaster - go ask an economist about why a devalued currency is a good thing to have in a recession. Go ask the Irish or the Italians if they are enjoying their over-valued currencies at the moment. Tell me that we'd have been better off had the pound stayed where it was, or only slipped a little bit - the city would be screaming for a devaluation.

And the period? Brown's time in office was the quote - are you suggesting that Brown's influence on the exchange rate only began when he left the Treasury? Either Brown is responsible for all things economic during Labour's time in office or he isn't - you can't pick and choose. If he was responsible for economic policy from 1997 then he was responsible for the exchange rate.

Major as PM presided over a similarly steep drop in the £/$ exchange rate. Should we be arguing that his responsibility started when he became PM or do we count his time as Chancellor as well?

"Its all about the timing" you say. Well as you're snapshotting one arbitrary date with another, lets look at some other numbers. Jan 81 $2.40 Jan 85 $1.09. Thats a 65% devaluation.

Graham_Devon

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

At $2+ the pound was hugely over-valued vs the dollar causing howls of pain from exporters. Dropping the value back to the level that barring a few blips it had held for nearly 20 years is not a disaster - go ask an economist about why a devalued currency is a good thing to have in a recession. Go ask the Irish or the Italians if they are enjoying their over-valued currencies at the moment. Tell me that we'd have been better off had the pound stayed where it was, or only slipped a little bit - the city would be screaming for a devaluation.

And the period? Brown's time in office was the quote - are you suggesting that Brown's influence on the exchange rate only began when he left the Treasury? Either Brown is responsible for all things economic during Labour's time in office or he isn't - you can't pick and choose. If he was responsible for economic policy from 1997 then he was responsible for the exchange rate.

Major as PM presided over a similarly steep drop in the £/$ exchange rate. Should we be arguing that his responsibility started when he became PM or do we count his time as Chancellor as well?

I only questioned the drop. Something which you chose not to answer?

The rest is smoke screens, looking to divert?

dealsearcher

Unfortunately I start skimming through the thread when you lot slag each other off.

Jennifer_Jane

chucky wrote: »

let me get this right Graham and this isn't disagreeing with what you have said - you're saying the Conservatives would be much better than Labour

below is a statement by George Osbourne from the weekend - he is not wrong with what he is saying but he provides no solution, no alternative or even telling us what the best option to take. They are just soundbites.

Both parties are as bad each other and we would be in the same type of problems regardless who was in power.

"George said, "It is shocking that the Government has not been prepared to subject either of these huge decisions to proper Parliamentary scrutiny."
And he added, "For the size of the British economy we have now spent more than any other country on bailing out our banks and there’s precious little to show for it. The taxpayer deserves better."
http://www.conservatives.com/News/News_stories/2009/03/The_taxpayer_deserves_better.aspx

Chucky - you may well be right, but we just don't know, do we? We only know what we have, not what might have happened.

Similarly we don't yet know what actions the Conservatives and LibDems would take until they release their manifestos (sp?). They would be mad to show their hands (and get their ideas swiped by Labour, as has happened before) before an election has been called - things are too fluid at the moment for an absolute judgment by an opposition party (IMHO!). I may be wrong, of course, it has been known....

Jen
x

Rochdale_Pioneers

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I only questioned the drop. Something which you chose not to answer?

I answered the drop - would you prefer the pound to be back up above $2? It was damaging to the economy back when we were still booming - we know the damage that an overvalued currency does in a recession. Why are you arguing that the devaluation was "a disaster"?

Graham_Devon

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

I answered the drop - would you prefer the pound to be back up above $2? It was damaging to the economy back when we were still booming - we know the damage that an overvalued currency does in a recession. Why are you arguing that the devaluation was "a disaster"?

I'm not. And you didn't answer the drop as you did with your post stating someone else was wrong. You spun the answer into making it sound worse, without actually answering.

I'm arguing the way you have represented your figures to try and state another poster is wrong, when the figures you used were massaged for the purpose.

All I did is ask the percentage drop of the above figures. I didnt ask all the stuff you responded with, but never answered the question, and didnt ask all of the above either, which also doesnt answer the question!

My point being, if you are going to say a poster is wrong, and massage figures to suit, is it wrong for me to pick up the different times, timescales, and the figures themselves (exchange rates) you have used to make your point?

Jennifer_Jane

jay3 wrote: »

It's funny hearing the bleating from many on this forum about the Labour government. This so-called Labour government has broadly continued the policies of the preceeding Tory governments - with predictable results. The poor will continue to get poorer, the rich will get richer. The likes of Osborne & Mandelson will continue to fraternise with dodgy Russian oligarchs (or whoever they think will chuck some money their way). The whole system has failed, not one political party.

jay3 - if Labour has broadly followed a previous government then more fool them. It only makes them seem more sheeplike than ever. In 11 years, you would expect them to have adapted to the whatever the current situation of the day was. They were brought in to change things, make things better, and abracadabra, yet another Labour financial mismanagement (I've lived through a few, including 19s 6d in the Pound income tax - not that it affected me, of course).


Jen
x

Rochdale_Pioneers

June 07 when Brown took over the exchange rate was $1.98 - today its $1.41, a devaluation of 29%

If you take the same period of time you get June 83 when it was $1.55 to Feb 85 when it was $1.09, a devaluation of 30%

However you want to cut the dates, and regardless of whether you want the pound to still be hugely over-vauled against the Dollar, you cannot take Brown's time in office and say its the worst performance ever - Thatcher beats it straight off her 83 election victory for starters.