Unfair Dismissal/Employment Tribunal help needed please...

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Hi Miss FM
Amazing how when people are under stress they keep late hours!
PILON from what I can find out will be taxable!
I stand fast on my last posting ' as far as I am concerned they have not followed the correct procedures and your subsequent grievance has nothing to do with your claim to the tribunal.'
You say that they state that they gave you the right of appeal, have they evidence to support this or are they referring to their response to your grievance letter. I agree that the outcome would probably have been the same but your argument is that they never followed any procedure at all. Go for the jugular I really believe they are calling your bluff.

CFC

Fact - that due to the current financial climate, ETs are currently very hot on firms failing to consult in a meaningful way when the question of redundancy arises.

My thoughts - don't worry too much about the appeal, in the letter that they should have given you as part of the redundancy process, they should have made clear that you had a right to appeal, and presumably you were not given this letter.

hundredk

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow wrote: »

PILON from what I can find out will be taxable!

This is correct. If you were consulted, selected and made redundant in the correct way, you could have been expected to work your notice period - that is what notice periods are for. If a company chooses to waive you working that period they are still obligated to pay you for it, hence PILON.

Incidentally, if you earn during the notice period the PILON is added to the new income for tax purposes so as you ahve alreay paid tax any additional earnings in notice period will be 100% taxable at applicable rate.

missfunkymonkey

Thanks all. Your comments have given me some reassurance that I do have a case.

Yes in their ET3 form they argue that they did give me the chance to appeal the decision. The only time this was done was indeed in their response to my grievance letter. This is also the only letter I have ever received from them confirming I was being made redundant! Earlier posts in the thread suggested I need to be seen to exhaust the grievance procedure and should therefore have appealed when they offered, albeit belatedly. I am not quite as worried now that I didn't based on some of the more recent posts.

Can anyone support Pawpurr's opinion that I could've just gone straight ahead with the ET claim for unfair dismissal and needn't have bothered raising a grievance and waiting 28 days for them to respond?

I think I began to doubt the substance of my claim when I saw their ET3 form contesting it, despite the fact they so blatantly disregarded any consultation or procedure. They have a solicitor acting so it makes me wonder on what grounds they feel they can contest it other than their arguments about the appeal offered and that the consultation would have made no difference to the outcome. Do most employers deny unfair dismissal claims no matter what, and just take the chance on the tribunal ruling in their favour? I know comprimise agreements are a possibility although there's been no hint of that happening in my claim so far.
Thanks again for all your comments and advice so far everyone :T. Any further opinions are very welcome.

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Hi
Glad to hear your feeling a little more up beat about things. I believe that you could have gone straight ahead with the ET claim as you were not given a right to appeal which would have been the final stage of the dismissal process, but hey they didn't follow any of the other stages so at least they were being consistent in their actions. I would think that some employers would try their luck by continuing the process as a bullying tactic, using a lawyer could be part of that tactic, hoping that you will just back down and scurry away into oblivion. How ever as time passes and the ET gets closer and you still have not surrendered they may begin to quake in their boots as any lawyer worth anything faced with facts that they failed to follow any of the minimum required procedures would advise them to settle before the ET. Also it would make commercial sense to come to an agreement with you as it would, more than likely, cost them less to do this than to pay the legal costs of their lawyer to represent them at the ET.
Don't be bullied by them, they are the ones who have wronged you, they are the ones who have failed to follow procedures, they are the ones who should be made to pay for their blatant disregard of your rights and employment law.:mad:

pawpurrs

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/employment/dealing_with_grievances.htm

Here you go it clearly states that you dont have to raise a grievance if you have been dismissed.

Can I ask when you submitted your ET1 as I have still not heard back, have acas been in touch?

missfunkymonkey

Thanks guys. I submitted my ET1 form in early Feb and heard from Acas about a week or so after that. How long ago did you submit yours pawpurrs? Did you receive a letter from ET to acknowledge your claim? I know they are dealing with a bit of a backlog due to the current amount of redundancies and subsequent unfair dismissal claims but if it's been more than a week since you submitted it I would give them a chase to make sure they have it.

pawpurrs

Think it was late feb, have had the email to say its been accepted, but not heard nowt else, it seems a tad unfair that it takes so long to get to tribunal, hey ho!

missfunkymonkey

I've received a letter from ET saying my former employer and I must soon exchange copies of all documents which we'll be relying on in court like payslips etc. Does anyone know if I have to include my personal statement I will be reading to the ET within this exchange? I would prefer not to provide it if possible as I do not want to give them the benefit of mounting a defence based on what they know in advance I will be reading out to the tribunal.

Also, as I do not have another job yet, I have included future loss of earnings on my schedule of loss. Will I need to produce copies of any job applications I have made to support this?

Many thanks in advance.

getmore4less

missfunkymonkey wrote: »

I've received a letter from ET saying my former employer and I must soon exchange copies of all documents which we'll be relying on in court like payslips etc. Does anyone know if I have to include my personal statement I will be reading to the ET within this exchange? I would prefer not to provide it if possible as I do not want to give them the benefit of mounting a defence based on what they know in advance I will be reading out to the tribunal.

Also, as I do not have another job yet, I have included future loss of earnings on my schedule of loss. Will I need to produce copies of any job applications I have made to support this?

Many thanks in advance.

I though the point of disclosure was to present ALL the relevent information.

How can you introduce new relevent information into a statement without any back up?

same applies to the otehr side