The TMB, Challenor Investments and a Mis-sold Mortgage

opinions4u

Cashpig74 wrote: »

U misunderstand. I was happy to buy a flat for 150,000 that was worth 180,000 (as this was the investment offer).

If it was really worth £180k we'd all be falling over ourselves to do it.

I was supposed to be getting a discount from 180,000 BUT the flats were never worth 180,000 to start with - their true worth was 150,000 and CHallenor it seems had bought them for this and sold them on for a "discount" by inflating the price UP. So I bought a flat worth 150,000 for 150,000 duped into thinking it was discounted.

Duped, maybe. Naive probably.

If it was truely discounted, then I should only have a mortgage for around 120,000 which would truly be 85% of the PURCHASE price - not the "estimated" price.

Actually, if TMB wanted to lend you £300k on a £150k property, then they could. They'd be stupid to do so, but it's their call. (btw, 85% of £150,000 is £127,500).

What if the surveyor estimated the value at 1.5m?

He may be incompetent. He may be on the take. He may have been generous in his valuation in a rising market. He is answerable to the lender though. You chose not to commission your own private valuation.

It doesnt matter what anyone says something is "worth", its the price it is ultimaely bought for that should be taken into account.

£150k then.

TMB knows the real purchase price was 150,000, they lent me 150,000 yet claim it is an 85% borrowing - which fixes nicely with their ability to flog me a mortgage.

May be somebody was fiddling to achieve their targets. I think we'll hear more about TMB being lax this year as more of their lending goes bad. But you still chose to borrow £150k on a property you knew you were paying £150k for.

I would never have bought an investment flat for full value. if I know that, then the bank must have seem the same thing. They skipped over an original valuation of 165,000 in favour of a higher one!? WHO does that? Banks are famous for UNDER doing the valuations to give themselves a little margin..

It depends on the market conditions at the time. To be honest, bending the lending criteria to earn staff a bonus looks a possibility here. You yourself suggested people should bend the rules to get what you want in your other post I referenced on here.

To be honest mate - how bad do you want the new place? Are you willing the bend the rules? Its the only way to get on without getting screwed - find a broker that can accomodate through "contacts" and see what they can offer.

this whole affair is nonesense - but had the prices increased it would be different for me. I would never had known that there was a pricing issue cos it would have been lost in the increase - that was what Challenor was banking on. Its only the price drops that have exposed the massive over infalted pricing con.

Inappropriate stuff has gone on by broker, surveyor, solicitor and lender.

But I still don't see you as a victim. From a lender's perspective they are the losers, possibly in part due to the actions of their own staff.

You're a loser because of a turn in the housing market.

ILW

The bit I dont get is why the OP would think that a developer would sell a flat for 150k if it was worth 180k. It was so bloody obvious it was just a scheme to help greedy "get rich quick" wannabees to buy without a deposit due to the fact that property only goes up. I think he only has himself to blame. High return = high risk.

Trollfever

Caveat Emptor.


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Wutang_2

Cashpig74 wrote: »

If you;ve working in Finance previously, then you'll know all the options available to ppl and the ones that can be used by smarter brokers to get better results.

Its like good lawyers, and GREAT lawyers. The latter costs more money - for a reason.


You perhaps you are a washed up failed - or average at best - financial advisor?! LMAO!

I think you are actually a bit mental

Cashpig74

Oh dear, the judgmental priks are back. They have millions from this cos its not so clear cut as all that. New builds are sold off plan for discounts all the time - and your amateur opnions on what is "right" has no meaning to me.

The bank is wrong, end of story. IF it were so clear that the bank was not at fault, the FOS would have thrown my caomplaint out 2 months ago. They are in fact continuing with it as assigning an adjudicator,

As for benfing the rules, the broker did not bend the rules, he made up new ones. The solicitor was supposed to be acting or me with my interests at heart, but was not - The entire reason for any of your posts is to hear the sound of your own b*itchy comments.

So you all think that the FOS are wrong, the fraud squad are wrong and you are all right.

LOL..

And FYI, certain paperwork which I should have been privy to at the time was kept from me so I was not aware of how things were in place - only reassured that everything would be "taken care of" by the "professionals".

I was led to believe that this was all fine and above board as were hundreds of other people.

Oh and you cr*ap about valuing at whatever they want is nonesnese. You cannot come along and "price" a house to suit the bank and lend accordingly in such a black and white manner. The banks will lend a certain amount based on proven income, rental projection in the area where a BTL is concerned and lend up to (in this case) 85% of the agreed price to buy at.

Appointing my OWN surveyor was something I was told would not be needed as the bank will only value the flat with their own - the reason they value it themselves? ---- To ensure that they will not lend MORE than an appropriate amount when the valuation is compared the agreed purchase price.

If I agree to buy at 400,000 - they will not lend me 85% of that - cos their valuer will say it not worth it. Does not stop me buying it at that price - I am still liable for the stamp duty on 400,000 purchase. The banks valations is in place to protect their own assets of "money" incase the need to take the property back. They are not estate agents and do not act as estate agents - they do not try to get a sale price UP iof anything they try to ensure a slightly mean valuation with in accordance with other SOLD properties in the area of a similar type.

This purchase had nothing to do with "get rich quick" it was a long term investment with a view to letting it out to tenants which I am doing. THAT is besides the point, There is a fraud crime here and he bank is not 100% guilt free. They may have been subject to iffy paperwork from brokers and lenders - this was not my doing and I was obviously the last person to be aware as the entire operation would need me to be "in the dark" - it was ME that was knocked so clearly I am NOT to blame. i do not give a shi*t if any of you claim I was naive - perhaps but that does not mean I not entitled to be compensated for it. It was not so obvious to see - or the police would have been on to them at the time wouldn't they"..??

Like I say, YOU are only in this thread to pass you gay b*itchy judgments and not actually add anything of worth.

Do not respond.

silvercar

Cashpig74 wrote: »

U misunderstand. I was happy to buy a flat for 150,000 that was worth 180,000 (as this was the investment offer).Did you get an independent valuation?

I was supposed to be getting a discount from 180,000 BUT the flats were never worth 180,000 to start with - their true worth was 150,000 Why wasn't this obvious to you? Why would they sell them cheap?and CHallenor it seems had bought them for this and sold them on for a "discount" by inflating the price UP. So I bought a flat worth 150,000 for 150,000 obviouslyduped into thinking it was discounted.Your purchase, your decision, your risk. If it was truely discounted, then I should only have a mortgage for around 120,000 which would truly be 85% of the PURCHASE price - not the "estimated" price.If it was a true discount, investors would be queuing round the door and buying in bulk.

What if the surveyor estimated the value at 1.5m? Then it would have sold at more than 150kWould that mean that my mortgage is a 10% mortgage? I still woould have borrowed 100% of the price I actually bought it for. It doesnt matter what anyone says something is "worth", its the price it is ultimaely bought for that should be taken into account.Something that you should have done.
TMB knows the real purchase price was 150,000, they lent me 150,000 yet claim it is an 85% borrowing - which fixes nicely with their ability to flog me a mortgage.And fixes nicely with you not wanting to putany of your own money into your proerty deal.

I would never have bought an investment flat for full value. Seems like you did!if I know that, then the bank must have seem the same thing. They skipped over an original valuation of 165,000 in favour of a higher one!? WHO does that? You did!Banks are famous for UNDER doing the valuations to give themselves a little margin..

this whole affair is nonesense - but had the prices increased it would be different for me. I would never had known that there was a pricing issue cos it would have been lost in the increase - that was what Challenor was banking on. It seems that this is what you were banking on.Its only the price drops that have exposed the massive over infalted pricing con.And the fact that you took on a risky investment that isn't going your way.

It seems that you are trying to blame everyone apart from yourself. You chose to invest, you took the risk of a 100% mortgage, a no-money-down deal. Now you want the risk part removed.

Cashpig74

It was not a 100% mrtgage RISK - the bank SAYS it is 85% remortgage - NOT the case. Are you all f*cking stupid..????

Jesus whats your interst in it anyway MR judgmental..?

I see ALL you can offer is after the event critisism. Thanks. Useless.

It's called being conned - I do not know every-fukking-thing THEN or NOW - if YOU are so clever, why did you not alert the authories yourself?????

Why did YOU not see this country's price fall and tell someone about it?

In fact, WHERE IS your crystal ball and how much did you pay for it,


I am AMAZED at al the "hard and fast" answers everyone is coming up with here to say that there was "no crime of fraud"

Would you like the DI's number at the the Fraud Squad? He's only got 20 yrs experience in serious fraud, but Im sure he can do with your extra finely tuned insider knowledge cos he's stuck and needs you ALL..

Well done, dont break you own arms patting yourself on the back.

Cashpig74

OH AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION - the lower valuation at the time of 165,000 was NOT made privy to me. The banks and the brokers communicate between themselves wtthout including me.

I WAS NOT aware that a first company from Essex was used to value it - and then thrown out. I discovered this fact yesterday when I got ALL the copied documents on file from the bank.

Oh, and the vendor is down on the paperwork as "estate agent"...

hmmm.....

jaynes2326

Hey Cashpig, you haven't said very much about the solicitors who acted for you. The little you have said indicates that they colluded in the scam. Are you pursuing a complaint against them as well?

We all know that builders have tax year deadlines to hit and you can get amazing bargains from them. I don't think it's correct to say that a developer will never sell anything for less than its worth. They certainly will if it benefits their quarterly or year end figures!

Good luck to you in getting some answers.

Cashpig74

OMG Jeynes!!