Consumer rights and used cars

mrzerouk

My family and I recently bought a second hand Vauxhall Frontera from a second hand car dealer on Autotrader. Less than a week later the car has stopped running and has had to be left at the side of the road as we can't drive it home.
Does anyone know what rights we may have to get a refund from the dealer? The receipt we received said 'sold as seen due to price reduction', does this scupper any hopes of redress.
The guy we bought from was a real roughneck so I can't imagine he's going to give in quietly so any advice on any legal routes would also be appreciated for when and if we might need them.
Cheers.

CHR15

I think you are stuffed.
Sounds like he knew what he was selling you because of the Sold as Seen note.

With the "price reduction" discount...... If something seems too good to be true........

derrick

For anyone selling a car, (especially a dealer), that car has to be roadworthy and legal, it sounds to me that this car was neither.

"Sold as seen" means nothing in law.

From Hampshire C C Trading Standards; -
I sold a car yesterday to a consumer for £500. At such a low price, I told him it was 'sold as seen'. He accepted this. Now, he's complained because the exhaust has fallen off, and he sys the clutch is going. I've told him that he agreed it was sold as seen and he hasn't any comeback.

'Sold as seen' in this context is a meaningless statement. You can only apply this reasonably to the way the car looks, or something that can be easily seen on a visual inspection, perhaps scratched or dented bodywork for example. However, it is not reasonable to expect a faulty exhaust or clutch to be picked up on the basis of a visual examination, and the consumer is probably entitled to complain. This soon into the contract, the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) would most likely allow him to reject the car and have a full refund.

Using the term 'sold as seen' in these circumstances may also be a criminal offence under the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order, as it would be seen as an attempt to restrict a consumer's legal rights. If you want to use any disclaimers, either in contracts or in signs on the garage premises, it is best to seek advice from Trading Standards or your company solicitor first.



From WHICH; -
"Second-hand goods
The second-hand car I bought 18 months ago broke down and needs a new engine. It was only one year old when I bought it. The dealer that sold it to me says second-hand cars are sold as seen. Is this right?

No. The Sale of Goods Act applies to both brand new and second-hand goods – in both cases, they have to be of satisfactory quality.
However, what is satisfactory for something second-hand is different from something new – the test is whether you could normally expect this type of problem at the age the item was. Since you wouldn't normally expect to have to replace a car's engine after two and half years, you may have a claim.
But since you've had the car for more than six months you would have to be able to show that the engine failure wasn't because of something you had or hadn't done (such as getting the car serviced or changing the oil)."

derrick

From Hampshire County Council


Can I limit my liability to a customer?

Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) a customer may be entitled to a refund or
a free repair if the motor vehicle is faulty, not of satisfactory quality or not fit for its purpose.
A customer may also be entitled to a refund or compensation if the vehicle is not as
described or where the seller had no legal right to sell it. These rights cannot be taken away
and any attempt by a trader to limit his liability under the Act by reference to an exclusion
clause or similar statement will be void and therefore unenforceable. Furthermore, under
the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order 1976 it is a criminal offence
to use such a statement. For example statements such as:

“No Warranty Given or Implied”

“Sold as Seen”

“Sold for Spares or Repair”(This may be used only in limited circumstances and not for
the sale of vehicles intended for use on the road)

are all void and therefore illegal.


.

advent1122

That's all well and groovy, but in the real world I think your chance of getting a voluntary refund from a roughneck second hand car dealer are zero.

The courts seem the only option

bookworm1363

mrzerouk wrote: »

My family and I recently bought a second hand Vauxhall Frontera from a second hand car dealer on Autotrader. Less than a week later the car has stopped running and has had to be left at the side of the road as we can't drive it home.
Does anyone know what rights we may have to get a refund from the dealer? The receipt we received said 'sold as seen due to price reduction', does this scupper any hopes of redress.
The guy we bought from was a real roughneck so I can't imagine he's going to give in quietly so any advice on any legal routes would also be appreciated for when and if we might need them.
Cheers.

Have you ascertained what the fault is?

It depends on what car it is, how old it is, how much you paid for it. You have the right to expect the car to be of reasonable qulity, fit for purpose and as described, but your expectations will have to be different depending on the above factors.

What you should do is write (NOT phone! everythign in writing from now on) to the trader telling him that you are rejecting the car as is your statutory right under SOGA 1979 (as amended) and that you want him to arrange collection of the car and a full refund on all monies paid. Remind him that the "sold as seen" receipt has no meaning in law and is in fact a breach of law by attempting to restrict your statutory rights. Advise him that unless collection of the vehicle and full refund are made within 7 days, you will have no option but a) report him to TS, b) sue him in SCC for full refund + interest + costs.

Send the letter recorded delivery, or free from the PO with a certificate of posting (which is all the proof you need).

If after 7 days, he hasn't responded positively, then you send him a 2nd letter entitled "letter before action" and give him a final 7 days, then on the 8th day, you issue a claim court, but we can advise you further on that if it comes to that.

Bear in mind that if the car is running again (you haven't said), you MUST stop using it if you want to invoke your right to reject.

CHR15

Was he an actual trader??

Most of the "so called" traders on Autotrader are simply spivs buying bangers from auctions and selling them on, they only state Trader in case it becomes noticed they are selling lots of cars.

mrzerouk

Thanks for all the advice.
Had the AA man out to the car yesterday who managed to narrow down the list of possible causes but was unable to get it running again. In the end he had to call out the tow truck so I couldn't use it anymore even if I wanted to. I'm guessing that the fact that it wont move would be a reasonable argument that it wasn't fit for purpose. Even second hand and reasonably inexpensive I would hope for more than 43 miles out of it.

As for whether he was a 'trader' or not, how could you tell? He was selling under a 'business name' (though this was just another name) and he had small premises on an industrial estate. He claimed that they had just set the business up about 4 months ago.

I read somewhere that there is a difference in the sales of goods act if you bought from a private seller rather than a dealer, but how do you go about proving he was a dealer rather than a private seller?

Firing off the first letter today so fingers crossed, but I'm not holding out too much hope.

maninthestreet

How old is this Vauxhall Frontera, and how many miles has it done?
Did it come with any service history? How much did you pay for it?

bookworm1363

Check the receipt for a VAT no.

You could also check Companies House website.

But if he presents himself as a trader, sells under a business name, and has business premises, then he would find it hard to claim he wasn't a trader. ;-) If it were to go to court and he wanted to say he was a private seller, based on the info youhave given, it would be up to him to prove that he wasn't a trader, and then explain how come that all evidence points to the fact he in fact is a trader. I don't think that's your main worry, tbh, it would be quite foolish of him to try that one.

Optimist

advent1122 wrote: »

That's all well and groovy, but in the real world I think your chance of getting a voluntary refund from a roughneck second hand car dealer are zero.

The courts seem the only option

I actually agree with this not just second hand dealers but car dealers in general perceive themselves to be a special case and not subject to SOGA.

You really have to go through the complaining, trading standards stage but be prepared to take it to court and hope the guy is not a fly by night with no assets