Council tax paying Public Sector pensions

MrFonzerelli

beingjdc wrote: »

it's a Lib-Dem Tory coalition

More Labour lies and broken promises!? :cool:

digipeep

I can see exactly what you are pointing out DonaldTramp, but I think your only going to be bashing your head against a brick wall. The public sector is bloated I think we all know that but its what keeps New Labour in power and unless we get rid of New Labour nothing will change.

fi_trix29

donaldtramp wrote: »

EH??? Why should I PAY for the pensions of others? I am NOT paying for your lawyer friends gym membership.
It is TOTALLY relevant. It is MY money and I don't want to pay someone elses pension.

You already pointed out that the public sector is paid for entirely by taxes - some local, some national. So if you don't want any of your taxes to be used to pay for local government pensions then what do you propose they are paid? The thing is if you decide to completely remove the pension scheme, or even just switch to one that is entirely employee funded then suddenly the council jobs don't seem so attractive and this would cause massive staffing problems.

Also, what if I decide that I don't think Asda workers should get an employer funded pension scheme because it is paid for using money made from me buying my shopping there - do I get to kick up fuss and say that they should stop funding a pension scheme and make my shopping cheaper? No, don't be ridiculous! It's no different here.

beingjdc

fi_trix29 wrote: »

Also, what if I decide that I don't think Asda workers should get an employer funded pension scheme because it is paid for using money made from me buying my shopping there - do I get to kick up fuss and say that they should stop funding a pension scheme and make my shopping cheaper? No, don't be ridiculous! It's no different here.

I will grant to them that it's slightly different in that driving to Tesco (if they make a different decision) is less of a big deal than emigrating to a low tax country, but if it makes people so angry, maybe they would prefer to live somewhere with low taxes and fewer public services.

On the other hand, you get a regular vote, for free, on people who are in charge of employment terms for the public sector, at a national and local level. You don't get that for ASDA unless you pay lots of money for a substantial shareholding in Wal-Mart. So, swings and roundabouts.

shewhoguards

donaldtramp wrote: »

That's the thing, in the private sector you HAVE A CHOICE. If they don't like her prices they can go elsewhere. I cannot. I have to keep funding the people's pensions who "work" for the local Council. I HAVE NO CHOICE courtesy of comrade Brown.

Ah, so what you're saying here is that we should privatise everything. Certainly, that would fix everything! It is surely the answer!

... travelled on a train lately, have you?

MrFonzerelli

beingjdc wrote: »

You might not like the choice other people have made, but that's what happens with decisions that have to be made collectively, some people will be unhappy with them.

One could argue that 35% of the electorate and a three line whip isn't collective decision making...:rolleyes:

beingjdc

MrFonzerelli wrote: »

One could argue that 35% of the electorate and a three line whip isn't collective decision making...:rolleyes:

One could, but I bet if the Tories get 45% in the next election, Labour get 30% and the Lib Dems get 20%, nobody would think it was fair if Labour and the Lib Dems formed a coalition...

No electoral system's perfect, but I quite like the one where everyone has a local MP, and the person with the most votes wins.

MrFonzerelli

65% of the electorate are living under the rule of a govt they didn't elect. The government can (and does) steam roller bad decision through. Need consensus government to make good decisions for the country.

beingjdc

MrFonzerelli wrote: »

The majority that voted for Labour or LibDems

What about people who voted Lib Dem because they'd heard Nick Clegg talk about cutting tax so wanted a Lib Dem Government, but whose second choice would have been the Tories? Or people who voted Labour because they like CCTV and DNA databases and whose second choice would be the Tories who'd recruit more police and lock people up for longer?

65% of the electorate are living under the absolute rule of a govt they didn't elect. The government can (and does) steam roller bad decision through. Pretty much all electoral systems have local representation.

The more local representation, the less proportional, simple fact (unless you increase the number of politicians, and I don't think either of us wants that).

Consensus government doesn't make good decisions, it makes easy decisions.

MrFonzerelli

beingjdc wrote: »

What about people who voted Lib Dem because they'd heard Nick Clegg talk about cutting tax so wanted a Lib Dem Government, but whose second choice would have been the Tories? Or people who voted Labour because they like CCTV and DNA databases and whose second choice would be the Tories who'd recruit more police and lock people up for longer?

You're making a lot of assumptions...!?

beingjdc wrote: »

The more local representation, the less proportional, simple fact.

The Germans do o.k. with their mixed form government.

beingjdc wrote: »

Consensus government doesn't make good decisions, it makes easy decisions.

Like not wasting money on ID cards...