500,000 pensioners pay the price for the indebted.

beecher

Really2 wrote: »

I agree with all of that..

Looks like we're all saying the same thing when it comes down to it :beer:

Wookster

Really2 wrote: »

Do you think the majority of pensioners own a home and they have all held a mortgage at some time?

What proportion had a mortgage when they were buying their home?

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

Hm. My paternal grandparents were a policeman and a nurse. In my book those are good, ordinary careers.

They are now but I would say 1920's to the 1970s they would have been way over the average wage (I would still say they would be over the national average now)

Don't forget the majority of workers back then were low paid mannual (we were a producing nation)

Also they were both working which was a very rare thing for those times.

Pobby

Wow what a great thread and no mention of sock puppets .... lol! Well lots of different points of view. Due to retire in a few years here. Mrs. P and I are getting a a full state pension and serps and should total approx. £13,000 a year. Currently we could manage on that according to my budget calculations.

We hold some old company/ private pensions that were valued at approx. £8,000 per annum. My guess is the way things are that would be a very liberal guestimation and I have down valued them to about £5,000.

Now the interest on savings bit. We are very much net savers and had IRs been 5%, our savings would generate another decent income. Now here comes the problem. Do we, at retirement, start drawing on capital if required? According to our budget we wouldn`t have to as certain expenditure we have now would be gone at retirement. E.G. our savings plans, pension contributions, running 2 cars ect.

As I see it now, there are few asset classes that would produce a reliable income right now. There is enough in the pot to buy out right a couple of flats locally to rent out but I am loath to do that for a number of reasons not the least one being a moral issue.

However it`s a shame that capital in retirement needs to be eaten into. Having said all of that I think we are in a very fortunate position. Now the key to all of this is to keep my little business going for that length of time until retirement.

As it happens, as a small aside, learning all I can about computers as I rather fancy a little self employed part time job fixing and building them. Help keep away the boredom once retired.Oh yes, and a few bob to keep me in beers!

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

They are now but I would say 1920's to the 1970s they would have been way over the average wage (I would still say they would be over the national average now)

Don't forget the majority of workers back then were low paid mannal (we were a producing nation)

Also they were both working which was a very rare thing for those times.

Yes, they did both work, that is very true. My grandmother took time off when the kids were very young but got back to work when they started school (no state funded childcare). She had a very poor education when she came to UK from Ireland all alone, at aged 15, and got a part time job at first, slowly working her way up. She was a really impressive woman and I miss her very much. I'm at least as stubborn as her and I hope I have half her grit. She ended up being a school nurse, testing children for deafness. She had her own car too, which she saved for. My granddad was the second son, of a second son of a second son. The farm had no more room to employ and the city called. He was a PC his entirelife but made Sergent in the Army and got some special medals for something. He started work at age fourteen.

They also, of course, did have work provided accomodation before they were married, in those days (no need for all those key worker one bed flats ) and they moved straight into a pretty ropey but very well located four bed terrace house..with a yard and an indoor loo!

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

Yes, they did both work, that is very true. My grandmother took time off when the kids were very young but got back to work when they started school (no state funded childcare). She had a very poor education when she came to UK from Ireland all alone, at aged 15,

She sounded a good woman.

The point above is one we all forget in our now priviladged possitions.

The majority had a poor education some not at all, this as kind of been the point of my thread.
There are a lot of poor pensioners out there for no fault of their own just a lack of oppertunity.

The loss on saving is a blow but compared most pensioners they (the 500,000) have not been more prudent they were just better off and still are.

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

She sounded a good woman.

The point above is one we all forget in our now priviladged possitions.

The majority had a poor education some not at all, this as kind of been the point of my thread.
There are a lot of poor pensioners out there for no fault of their own just a lack of oppertunity.

The loss on saving is a blow but compared most pensioners they (the 500,000) have not been more prudent they were just better off and still are.

But my point is contrary, both of them MADE their oppertunities, no education, very little support ...although they did have with the kids....My father and his sister went to the farm for every school holiday, but depsite lack of help and fostering etc etc people DID get ahead.

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

But my point is contrary, both of them MADE their oppertunities, no education, very little support ...although they did have with the kids....My father and his sister went to the farm for every school holiday, but depsite lack of help and fostering etc etc people DID get ahead.

I won't get in to that one as much of the growth of Britain as an industrial nation was stopping opportunity of the working classes.

I would not see how a boy forced down a pit at the age of 14 would have had an option to change in a coal mining town with no option for adult education.

I think it would belittle the memory of past generation if we wrote off their poor backgrounds was from lack of trying.:(

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

I won't get in to that one as much of the growth of Britain as an industrial nation was stopping opportunity of the working classes.

I would not see how a boy forced down a pit at the age of 14 would have had an option to change in a coal mining town with no option for adult education.

I think it would belittle the memory of past generation if we wrote off their poor backgrounds was from lack of trying.:(

No, I'm not saying that.
Thats an oversimplified to the point of iunrepresentative of what I'm saying. In fact, its the kind of thing that starts bitter rows here.

My grandparents WERE working class, regardless of the careers they entered. My grandfather's family were landowning farmers, but as the last in a long line of second sons he had 'nothing behind him' they both made their ways from scratch. My grandmother lived in wartime London with a southern irish accent she never lost, and my Grandfather had a wiltshire burr. (Incidently, they chucked my father out at 15 to make his way as they had done too, and until they died he had not one penny from them between fiften and Grandma's death), so he did much the same as them, with greater career development but lower comparitve financial gain.

It is not to the blame of a 14 year old minor he didn't get out, but rather to the credit that his peer, like my grandmother..like my father, that they did. I can understand why these NOW economically middle class (and I agree thats a whole other and inappropriate for here argument) feel aggreived. I really can.

itsnever2lateisit?

Let me translate what Yvette Cooper said last night.

I have a higher than average salary
I have a 2nd home for free
I receive payments for expenses that you have to take my word that were incurred in the first place
I only pay class 2 and class 4 NI
I have a gold plated non-contributory pension, but I am bitter that it is not as good as Goodwin's

I'm alright Jack, so stop whining