Suspended from Work

Calvinandhobbs

Uncertain wrote: »

This is not correct. You DO have a right to be paid for any untaken holiday. This would be true even if you were dismissed on the spot for the most serious gross misconduct. I suggest you check this on the ACAS or Businesslink websites.

This is copied from the Businesslink website......

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.l1=1073858787&r.l3=1074414642&r.lc=en&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1074415038&r.l2=1073858926&r.s=sc

Holiday pay on termination of employment

When your workers leave - even if you have dismissed them without notice for gross misconduct - they must receive pay for any holiday they are entitled to in the current leave year but have not taken.
This entitlement is not subject to a minimum period of employment.

This just shows how careful you have to be with advice given on this (or any other) forum!

It may be the firm will try to argue that the week's pay was the amount of holiday owed!

No, as a chartered member of the CIPD I can assure you that it is possible and legal to summarily dismiss without payment of holiday pay, OP may well find his contract or disciplinary rules states this.

Uncertain

Calvinandhobbs wrote: »

No, as a chartered member of the CIPD I can assure you that it is possible and legal to summarily dismiss without payment of holiday pay, OP may well find his contract or disciplinary rules states this.

Well, if you are right then the various government websites are ALL wrong. The link I gave is very clear and there are many others saying the same thing.

I think you will find that a contract may try to do this for holiday in EXCESS of the statutory min but it cannot take away your basic legal entitlement. You have earned this holiday before the gross misconduct took place.

I have also seen several comments on legal forums that organisations like the IPD tend to put a "spin" on the law in a way that suits them!

Calvinandhobbs

Uncertain wrote: »

Well, if you are right then the various government websites are ALL wrong. The link I gave is very clear and there are many others saying the same thing.

I think you will find that a contract may try to do this for holiday in EXCESS of the statutory min but it cannot take away your basic legal entitlement. You have earned this holiday before the gross misconduct took place.

I have also seen several comments on legal forums that organisations like the IPD tend to put a "spin" on the law in a way that suits them!

Presuming you mean CIPD, not IPD, that is possibly a fair point, you use whatever weapons you can I guess :rotfl: Speaking only for myself and friends in similar occupations, we feel we spend more of our time protecting our employees from their over zealous managers who tend to want to sack everyone, rather picking the law apart to screw over the little guy


My view on ACAS and the like is similar to yours about my profession to be honest We often see something that has been so over-simplified it comes close to being untrue


Anyway OP, hope it works out, from what you described I personally think a written warning might have been more fitting, but I am a bit of a softie

Uncertain

I think there are some ET decisions on this subject if we can be bothered to dig them up!

Just a thought with your theory?

Suppose you had two employees guilty of the same act of GM on the same day. Both are dismissed. One has two weeks holiday owing but the other has just come back from Spain having used all theirs. Are you going to demand two weeks pay back from one or pay the other. How would you justify treating them in different ways?

Just a thought!

Calvinandhobbs

One is payment made, presumably for holiday accrued, so couldn't touch it! Can't justify that at all, I quite agree

Uncertain

Calvinandhobbs wrote: »

One is payment made, presumably for holiday accrued, so couldn't touch it! Can't justify that at all, I quite agree

Maybe scope for a new thread!

If I get time I will dig around a bit more on this one!

mountainofdebt

What is really baffling is the way that they have done things......if they wanted to get rid of me -as I have been there less than a year they could have simply stated that I hadn't passed my probation period and that they were letting me go.

TBH I don't think they have statisified so many employment proceedures since day 1 - they haven't given me, for example, a written statement of employment which they had to give me (or any of the other staff for that matter) with 8 weeks of starting and the person hearing my disciplinary was also involved in the investigation.

At this moment in time I am only interested in what reference they would be given me and there are legitimate ways that I would be able to check (not a threat you understand but merely stating the fact) that they were sticking to their side of the bargain. If push come to shove then I do have a way around this, which might be be helpful in the future but my immediate problem is what do I say when I speak to this guy on monday?

Whilst I accept that the issue of not banking the cheques might be viewed as a disciplinary offence - and I hasten to add the cheques were in the office kept in a safe, accessible place - it cannot be viewed by a reasonable minded person to be either a gross misconduct offence or an offence worthy of dismissal.

Boomdocker

mountainofdebt wrote: »

Whilst I accept that the issue of not banking the cheques might be viewed as a disciplinary offence - and I hasten to add the cheques were in the office kept in a safe, accessible place - it cannot be viewed by a reasonable minded person to be either a gross misconduct offence or an offence worthy of dismissal.

Hiya, depends really as if one of our cash office clerks missed a banking it could be a breach of cash handling procedures. That said we would investigate and initially consider an appropriate level of warning only escalating if it was repeated or negligence ie left them out and therefore compromised. Does seems a bit harsh though if it was a first offence. Have you appealed yet?

Uncertain

mountainofdebt wrote: »

At this moment in time I am only interested in what reference they would be given me and there are legitimate ways that I would be able to check (not a threat you understand but merely stating the fact) that they were sticking to their side of the bargain. If push come to shove then I do have a way around this, which might be be helpful in the future but my immediate problem is what do I say when I speak to this guy on monday?

I think you should lodge an appeal and make a detailed list of every single thing they have done wrong. There is a great deal of information on line plus there is ACAS and the CAB. Does your houshold insurance cover legal expenses? Dismissal is still unfair, even within 12 months if the correct procedures are not followed. With all respect to Calvinandhobbs, the government websites are very clear about holiday pay. The amount of money here is small (to the firm) but the potential hassle is huge. A polite but firm approach may be the best way of extracting the required reference.

mountainofdebt

I have written to appeal the decision but I think it will be held up as I have thought of the implications should it be overturned.

I really need to think of something for when I speak to this guy on monday so any useful tips and hints would be appreciated.