Suspended from Work

Uncertain

Flickering_Ember wrote: »

If you;re being dismissed for a misconduct matter, they do not have to give you any notice.

This would need to be Gross Misconduct (in the legal sense) to be dismissed without notice. Even then they would have to pay you for any holiday owed.

mountainofdebt

Well guys I thought I would give you abit of an update.

I went but as I thought on Tuesday, I was dismissed with immediate effect with a weeks pay in lieu of notice under the gross misconduct rules.

My offence? Apparently I didn't bank (which is not in my job description) some cheques that were received Thursday.

It was a foregone conclusion and even the guy, who has had masses of experience of disciplinary proceedures, made the comment it was not a fair hearing but that it was more of a lecture.

By biggest concern now is that any reference they give will state that I was sacked for gross misconduct which gives the impression that it was some far more serious like stealing, bullying etc and not for banking some ruddy cheques. How do I deal with this ?

Horace

Does your disciplinary policy give leave for appeal, if so appeal your sacking and say why you are appealing it and provide evidence if you can.

Uncertain

mountainofdebt wrote: »

Well guys I thought I would give you abit of an update.

I went but as I thought on Tuesday, I was dismissed with immediate effect with a weeks pay in lieu of notice under the gross misconduct rules.

My offence? Apparently I didn't bank (which is not in my job description) some cheques that were received Thursday.

It was a foregone conclusion and even the guy, who has had masses of experience of disciplinary proceedures, made the comment it was not a fair hearing but that it was more of a lecture.

By biggest concern now is that any reference they give will state that I was sacked for gross misconduct which gives the impression that it was some far more serious like stealing, bullying etc and not for banking some ruddy cheques. How do I deal with this ?

I'm sorry to hear this. I'm sure more expert opinions than mine will be offered but my thoughts are....

If they claim it to be Gross Misconduct why are they giving you any pay in lieu of notice?

Even if you have been employed for less than 1 year they are still obliged to follow the correct procedures.

Don't forget you have a right to be paid for any holiday due.

mountainofdebt

Well I'm even more confused now.

I had the letter confirming my dismissal because of misconduct (didn't state gross misconduct though just misconduct) giving me one weeks pay in lieu of notice - don't understand why they've done that though if it was gross misconduct.

I am going to appeal - if only to come to some sort of compromise about what they say in references although I do have a back up plan if they won't agree to say that we parted company under mutual agreement.

The thing is, is that I am likely to be talking to a man about a job on monday and I really don't want to say that I left this way so what I can I say ?

I did think about saying something along the lines that since Christmas the working relationship deterioted to such an extent that I was unable to perform to the standard that I would want to ......does this sound lame?

Calvinandhobbs

Uncertain wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear this. I'm sure more expert opinions than mine will be offered but my thoughts are....

If they claim it to be Gross Misconduct why are they giving you any pay in lieu of notice?

Even if you have been employed for less than 1 year they are still obliged to follow the correct procedures.

Don't forget you have a right to be paid for any holiday due.

Well, you can be dismissed for something classed as 'misconduct', the dismissal does not in itself make the matter 'gross misconduct'. (Though they have weakened their position by offering PILON.) Most contracts will state that dismissal may occur for misconduct falling short of gross misconduct, but warranting dismissal, especially within your first year of employment. Sorry, but outside the discrimination/Health and Safety field, you have no right to make any claim in Tribunal.

Maybe you speak to the Director, politely apologise for your wrongdoing (whatever your thoughts!) state you were very unhappy by the way the disciplinary was handled, and felt the dismissal was unfair, however you understand that you did breach the Company procedure, therefore, you won't be appealing (is there any point here? You sound like you want to go and they want you gone), but you were hoping that you could part on good terms and will be grateful for a reference, as obviously the job market is tough right now, you have a family/house/pet tortoise to support and are aware that a bad reference would prevent your further employment. Unless you've really wronged them, employers don't tend to give out 'bad references', although contrary to popular belief it is possible to give a 'bad' reference, as long as you aren't libellous, especially as they have a duty to the new employer, not to misrepresent their ex-employee! (it's an area full of the shades of grey!)

I think it's quite likely the Director will at least agree to confirm you worked there, even if he says no further. If you think you'll get a bad reference, then you either tell your potential new employer the truth, afterall there's no suggestion of theft here, or, as you have such short employment, you miss it off your CV altogether

No, if you are summarily dismissed then there is no right to payment in respect of accrued holiday pay, however, you did have a right to be paid for your suspension, so check that you were.

Calvinandhobbs

mountainofdebt wrote: »

Well I'm even more confused now.

I had the letter confirming my dismissal because of misconduct (didn't state gross misconduct though just misconduct) giving me one weeks pay in lieu of notice - don't understand why they've done that though if it was gross misconduct.

I am going to appeal - if only to come to some sort of compromise about what they say in references although I do have a back up plan if they won't agree to say that we parted company under mutual agreement.

The thing is, is that I am likely to be talking to a man about a job on monday and I really don't want to say that I left this way so what I can I say ?

I did think about saying something along the lines that since Christmas the working relationship deterioted to such an extent that I was unable to perform to the standard that I would want to ......does this sound lame?

Sorry for further post!! As a manager, when I hear someone saying they left their job due to a bad working relationship, then I immediately am suspicious that they are a difficult employee who will cause trouble and have a bad working relationship in my Company too (unless of course I know their old Company and agree it is dreadful)

As you have no legal rights, you will probably find the nice approach gets you further when you speak to your old employer. Good luck

Uncertain

Calvinandhobbs wrote: »

No, if you are summarily dismissed then there is no right to payment in respect of accrued holiday pay, however, you did have a right to be paid for your suspension, so check that you were.

This is not correct. You DO have a right to be paid for any untaken holiday. This would be true even if you were dismissed on the spot for the most serious gross misconduct. I suggest you check this on the ACAS or Businesslink websites.

This is copied from the Businesslink website......

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.l1=1073858787&r.l3=1074414642&r.lc=en&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1074415038&r.l2=1073858926&r.s=sc

Holiday pay on termination of employment

When your workers leave - even if you have dismissed them without notice for gross misconduct - they must receive pay for any holiday they are entitled to in the current leave year but have not taken.
This entitlement is not subject to a minimum period of employment.

This just shows how careful you have to be with advice given on this (or any other) forum!

It may be the firm will try to argue that the week's pay was the amount of holiday owed!

Uncertain

A further thought on this matter....

Several posters above feel you should concentrate on getting a satisfactory reference from these people. This may be good advice, but only if you can be really sure this will happen. Even if they write a "to whom it may concern" reference letter and give it to you, what will happen if they are phoned?

Unless you are satisfied that the promise of a reference will be honoured you may feel you are better extracting the last penny you can from them now.

From what you have posted, I doubt they have properly followed all the correct procedures - no doubt hoping that the fact you have been there less than a year will let them get away with this.

Mrsalice

I've been dismissed twice for gross misconduct and succesfully appealed both times, at the same company! The first appeal took 19 weeks and the second time took 8 months! I was only 19 the first time and 22 the second.
In both my dismissal letters it states due to being dismissed for gross misconduct you forfeit any right of holiday pay etc.
Both times people said to me it's not worth appealing but both times I went for it and the more I searched and dug deeper the more information and loop holes I found. It's a tough one in your position as you've got less than a years service.
My advice, and this is only my opinion I'm sure others might disagree, would be to appeal. Register your appeal and attend a meeting with them. Explain to them you did not not realise this was in your job description. Have you got an employee handbook? Or does it say in your contract about cheques? In my second appeal, which was for a much more serious allegation against me, I took the handbook and highlighted all relevant paragraphs, and I took ALL the letters I had recieved from the company and their 'evidence' against me. I referenced everything I had highlighted to end notes that I had researched and had significant points to make. If it's not in your handbook or job description in your contract, point this out. I really don't know if this is helpful, maybe someone more experienced or knowledgable on this forum might be able to add some ideas on this. The thing thats in my mind really is the under 12 months service. Both times I was dismissed and I spoke to solicitors, citizens advice the FIRST thing they ask is, have you over 12 months employment with the company.
Your aim I guess is not to get your job back, or be reinstated on different terms, it's simply to have (gross) misconduct and dismissal removed from your history. That was my original aim in both appeals. I HATE that employers are like this! They should offer you the opportunity to resign and have better options open...unless you blatently stole from them or something!