planning issue needs help!

hjbatchelor

Hi All,

This is quite a specialist subject which i might not get any help with. I own 9 acres of woodland and i have had a mobile home in it or 5 years. When it was initially placed it never had planning permission. I understand that after 4 years of it being there it is now immune from any enforcement by the council. However to make it a bit more safe i need to apply for a lawful development certificate. Does anyone know what these are and how they work. Will it gurantee me the outcome of keeping the mobile home on the land as i want to use it for accomadation. How can i prove it has been there 4 or more years?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Harry.

Richard_Webster

You need 10 years if you are concerned with a use of land rather than 4 years which relates to a building or other operation.

Unless the mobile home was kept for a purpose ancillary to the use of the woodland (which is difficult to imagine) all you have been doing is stationing a mobile home for that period. You would need another 5 years before you could even begin to apply for a certificate of lawful use.

I suspect if you apply in 5 years time you might hit another hurdle. The Council will want to know what the mobile home was used for. If you show 10 years stationing you might get a lawful use certificate for keeping a mobile home there but that would not necessarily allow it to be used for living accommodation! They would want proof of 10 years occupation as a dwelling to give a certificate of lawful use for that purpose.

If I am wrong I am sure Planning_Officer will be along to correct this shortly.

seven-day-weekend

Pretty sure Richard's information is accurate. It is ten years for USE of land rather than the four years for a building before it is immune from enforcement action or eligible for a Certificate of Lawful Use.

planning_officer

Yes, the above advice regarding the 10-year rule is correct - the mobile home has to be on the land for 10 years before you can apply for a Lawful Development Certificate for an Existing Use.

The relevant legislation is contained in the Planning and Compensation Act 1991 - part of which which replaces a section of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. Section 171B states:

"171B Time limits
(1) Where there has been a breach of planning control consisting in the carrying out without planning permission of building, engineering, mining or other operations in, on, over or under land, no enforcement action may be taken after the end of the period of four years beginning with the date on which the operations were substantially completed.

(2) Where there has been a breach of planning control consisting in the change of use of any building to use as a single dwellinghouse, no enforcement action may be taken after the end of the period of four years beginning with the date of the breach.

(3) In the case of any other breach of planning control, no enforcement action may be taken after the end of the period of ten years beginning with the date of the breach."

i.e. for building works only, the period is 4 years until it becomes lawful; for a change of use of an existing building to a residential use, the period is also 4 years; however for any change of use of any land or for the change of use of any building, other than to a residential use, the period is 10 years.

In your case, the mobile home is not operational development, i.e. is not a building - therefore it is the change of use of the land, from agricultural (?) to residential, that is the issue, which falls into the 10 year category. So you will need to demonstrate 10 years continuous residential use of the mobile home in order for a Lawful Development Certificate to be granted, which obviously can't be done if it's only been there for 4 or 5 years!

hjbatchelor

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me. Is there any way round this then and any possible routes i could pursue to get the placement. The council had said that it is unlikely permanent permission would be granted. But i would need to be on the land permanently and constantly to ensure proper animal husbandry is carried out and security of the land.

I aim to keep some pigs in the woodland and maybe some other animals which i can rear and run as a sort of smallholding. Any help/advice on how i might achieve what i want would be most appreciated.

Thanks again,

Harry.

Robert_Sterling_3

I think this thread is an example of MSE at its best.

safe

Sorry to hijack the thread but I have a question along similar lines for planning_officer or someone else in the know that may be usful for the OP.

If an outbuilding within the cartilage of a residential dwelling (so a residential outbuilding) had been lived in as an independent house, not as an annex although to a family member. If this was granted lawful, would the building be able to be pulled down and replaced as a replacement dwelling or would restrictions be applicable such as when developing a barn where you can’t alter it too much?

And would receipts for building materials, labour, a phew photos and lots of signed affidavits be enough to satisfy the planning officer that the building has been lived in as an independent dwelling house or do you think they would be looking for more info?

Thanks

hjbatchelor

Whats MSE?

princessamy86

MSE: Money Saving Expert

hjbatchelor

Oh

I guess i will not be able to do the mobile home idea then.

I just want to live on my land and keep a few animals.

Is there no way i can do this?

Harry.

RLH33

planning_officer wrote: »

Yes, the above advice regarding the 10-year rule is correct - the mobile home has to be on the land for 10 years before you can apply for a Lawful Development Certificate for an Existing Use.

The relevant legislation is contained in the Planning and Compensation Act 1991 - part of which which replaces a section of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. Section 171B states:

"171B Time limits
(1) Where there has been a breach of planning control consisting in the carrying out without planning permission of building, engineering, mining or other operations in, on, over or under land, no enforcement action may be taken after the end of the period of four years beginning with the date on which the operations were substantially completed.

(2) Where there has been a breach of planning control consisting in the change of use of any building to use as a single dwellinghouse, no enforcement action may be taken after the end of the period of four years beginning with the date of the breach.

(3) In the case of any other breach of planning control, no enforcement action may be taken after the end of the period of ten years beginning with the date of the breach."

i.e. for building works only, the period is 4 years until it becomes lawful; for a change of use of an existing building to a residential use, the period is also 4 years; however for any change of use of any land or for the change of use of any building, other than to a residential use, the period is 10 years.

In your case, the mobile home is not operational development, i.e. is not a building - therefore it is the change of use of the land, from agricultural (?) to residential, that is the issue, which falls into the 10 year category. So you will need to demonstrate 10 years continuous residential use of the mobile home in order for a Lawful Development Certificate to be granted, which obviously can't be done if it's only been there for 4 or 5 years!

Planning Officer - I usually agree completely with your sound advice but are you sure about the 10 year rule for residential? I thought that the rule had changed, following a high court case or something, where to prove residential use it was four years rather than the 10 years for all other changes of use. This means that for residential alone it is four years not only for operational development but also the use. This is certainly the way we have been advising in my LA.