Finally! Darling admits they were wrong!

Wookster

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

And I think Brown made a valid point this morning - the risks the banks were taking were not seen as risks at the time.

So why the vilification of the bankers then? Surely the regulators should know more than the bankers, especially as regards risk.

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

you cannot deny that there is a global recession.

I don't deny that many countries will be affected but the notion that Britain is the innocent victim of a global recession is fanciful - our housing market has been a huge ponzi scheme. Higher interest rates would have significantly dented the bubble. Brown was singularly in charge of this regime - making the BoE target the CPI rather than the RPI was one of the most stupid things he has done.

leveller2911

StevieJ wrote: »

All roads lead to the US, whatever the Brown baiters think:eek: Any overvaluation of properties and excessive debts
could have been rebalanced gently over a few years if the CDO problem had not raised its ugly head.

The overvaluation of properties and excessive debt should NOT have been allowed to happen in the first place, you can,t blame the US for our government and publics c o c k-ups..

Yes this is a global recession but lets not kid ourselves of the facts of who,s to blame... 1st Joe publics greed (NOT all , but a lot) 2nd governments inability to govern properly. 3rd banks for lending 125% mortgages.............As for the last 11yrs of growth be honest much of which has resulted in the problems we are facing now, ie it was all a big fat juicy lie....

mardatha

Can I just ask if he speaks off the cuff, or if he has somebody tell him what to say ? Is it a group thing or does he just say whatever he wants to?

Rochdale_Pioneers

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Since when did Europe, Russia and America make up "global"?

When (a) they make up a large majority of the world's GDP
(b) They are spread across the world's surface
(c) Then add Japan (in recession) and Australia (going into recession) and that covers the bulk of the globe and the vast majority of economic activity.

Graham_Devon

So let me get this right.

This recession, is America's fault, it's Global, but, the UK is best placed to weather the storm.

Have i got my facts straight?

StevieJ

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

To be clear, our banks have exposed themselves to the kind of toxic assets that banks in somewhere like Spain whose regulations were tighter have not. But has that stopped Spain crashing into a recession that forecasts unemployment double our own?


?

You could say that about the far east also, the problem is the bank fallout has reduced global market demand whether your banks participated in the CDO debacle or not. If a country is a big exporter it will be affected badly, in fact if a countries banks were not badly affected it probably means that the currency will be stronger and so have an even worse effect on exports eg Japan.

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

So let me get this right.

This recession, is America's fault, it's Global, but, the UK is best placed to weather the storm.

Have i got my facts straight?

Getting there

Rochdale_Pioneers

Graham_Devon wrote: »

So let me get this right.

This recession, is America's fault, it's Global, but, the UK is best placed to weather the storm.

Have i got my facts straight?

1) "This recession, is America's fault" It started there but its not exclusively their fault. They created the free market model adopted here in Europe and elsewhere, but they didn't force us to do it. They packaged the sub prime loans and lied about their value, but we didn't have to buy them. Just as with people who took out 125% mortgages here the blame is shared between both parties - it takes two to tango.
2) "it's Global". You have to be certifiable to pretend that it isn't
3) "the UK is best placed to weather the storm" No, and I have never said that we are. We're in better shape than a lot of other countries - our banks managed to offset large assets against their larger debts, so are quite clearly in better shape than the Irish or Austrians or Icelandics. Or Americans come to think of it. Our economy isn't contracting as fast as export manufacture led ones like Germany, Japan and China - and the pound's rebasing back to a sane level vs the ludicrous heights of a year ago makes our exports competitive.

I have said repeatedly that commentators insisting that the UK is worst off are talking out their backside - the raw data alone proves that our economy isn't contracting as fast as others, that unemployment isn't increasing as fast as or forecasted to be as big as others. Thats not the same as claiming we're best placed, but we're certainly not worst.

Wookster

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

1) "This recession, is America's fault" It started there but its not exclusively their fault. They created the free market model adopted here in Europe and elsewhere, but they didn't force us to do it. They packaged the sub prime loans and lied about their value, but we didn't have to buy them. Just as with people who took out 125% mortgages here the blame is shared between both parties - it takes two to tango.

Wow blaming America is like saying I saw Paul steal something, so I copied him, now that I'm caught arrest Paul its his fault. Your logic is flawed and you still go to jail (hopefully).

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

2) "it's Global". You have to be certifiable to pretend that it isn't

Agreed

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

3) "the UK is best placed to weather the storm" No, and I have never said that we are. We're in better shape than a lot of other countries - our banks managed to offset large assets against their larger debts, so are quite clearly in better shape than the Irish or Austrians or Icelandics. Or Americans come to think of it. Our economy isn't contracting as fast as export manufacture led ones like Germany, Japan and China - and the pound's rebasing back to a sane level vs the ludicrous heights of a year ago makes our exports competitive.

Interesting logic - because some countries are worse than us, we are in a good position. I'm not sure I'd be making any statements about the health of our banks. We have not seen the impact of the UK's sub prime crisis yet, or the impact of rising unemployment on banks ability to recover debts.
I think you mean that "economy isn't contracting as fast as export manufacture led ones like Germanyyet". The show has only just begun.

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

I have said repeatedly that commentators insisting that the UK is worst off are talking out their backside - the raw data alone proves that our economy isn't contracting as fast as others, that unemployment isn't increasing as fast as or forecasted to be as big as others. Thats not the same as claiming we're best placed, but we're certainly not worst.

The countries that will bounce back sooner are those with less debt and less of an asset price bubble. It is undeniable that the UK has had an enormous asset price bubble and is consequently very heavily indebted. Years are going to be spent paying off this debt or inflating it away.

Rochdale_Pioneers

Wookster wrote: »

Wow blaming America is like saying I saw Paul steal something, so I copied him, now that I'm caught arrest Paul its his fault. Your logic is flawed and you still go to jail (hopefully).

????? Thats not what I am saying at all - can't you read? I said it BOTH our faults. America set up the system and created dodgy financial investments. Thats their fault - nobody made them do it. Whats our fault is that we copied their system, and then greedily invested in dodgy investments being offered. Noone forced us to buy those products or copy their system.