Employer says no paid holiday entitlement - resignation letter help requested

liney

flea72 wrote: »

an employer can state 4 weeks holiday, as they can include your bank holidays in the .8

this is how alot of companies are getting around the increases in holiday entitlement. basically stick with the 20 working days holiday (ie 4 weeks), and using any increases to knock off what were previously paid for bank holidays. so whereas i used to get 20 days plus b/hols, i now get 20 days holiday, 4 b/hols that have to be taken as holiday, and 4 that are paid b/hols (working on the standard 8 b/hols a year)

Flea

A person is still entitled to 4.8 week leave in total, so if you worked Wed/Thur/Friday each week ie don't normally work on a Monday you aren't having it as holiday, but should be given a proportion of the day (pro - rata) to take in lei instead. Therefore a Saturday worker who never works Mondays should also be allocated for bank holidays on a pro-rata basis.

What i'm getting at is if the company pays for bank holidays then they cannot discriminate against part time staff simply because their shifts dont fall on a Monday - this would be indirect sexual discrimanation because a high proportion of part time workers are women. A tried and tested argument.

flea72

liney wrote: »

What i'm getting at is if the company pays for bank holidays then they cannot discriminate against part time staff simply because their shifts dont fall on a Monday - this would be indirect sexual discrimanation because a high proportion of part time workers are women. A tried and tested argument.

yes, they cant discriminate against p/t staff, and should pro-rata bank holidays if you dont work a monday (or friday in the case of easter b/h), but as b/hs can be included in holiday entitlement, you try reasoning with an employer who argues that if you kick up a stink, they will implement it so f/t staff dont get b/h in addition to holiday entitlement - when there is only one p/t member of staff (ie you) and the other 30 staff are f/t, then you can see the predicament

personally, its not worth losing a job over, so i play them at their own game, and do as little work as possible, whilst i am there

Flea

flea72

surreysaver wrote: »

That's what I said, but in a less complicated way - i.e. the same way in which the law says it - 4.8 / 5.6 weeks. That way it takes into account part timers, and full-time staff who do not do a standard 5-day week. In fact, it is worked out in the number of hours you work - not the number of days as you state, as some people vary the number of days they work each week. There's no point complicating it by stating number of days - that is a mis-nomer.

the company you work for chooses whether holiday is recorded in days or hours. it is not a 'fact' that holiday is based on hours worked, employers choose which way they would like to work it. the directgov website, refers to 'days' in all its holiday entitlement calculations

If you work varying shifts, then an average of your previous 17 weeks, working 'days' are taken to use for the calculation

the only time you would calculate holiday entitlement in hours, is if someone worked on a casual or irregular basis, but a whole other equation is used to work out their entitlement

Flea

eyeinthesky

Hi CocoLoco, you don't say where you get the 5.3 figure from? Also, I would imagine you will only be able to claim for holiday in the current year, i.e. from the start of your company's leave year until the present. If their leave year is from April, then you would have to revise your calculations, as you will be a little short of a full year. I would be inclined to show your employer the info from direct.gov, before handing in your resignation, as I expect she will want to research it herself. Bank holidays shouldn't be a problem, as we don't have many on saturdays, but you may be entitled pro rata, i.e. one fifth of your working week for each bank holiday. Might be worth looking into.

The minimum entitlements were news to me, thank you for the info. My own holiday entitlement is 25 days plus bank holidays, but my company included them until I had completed one full company year of employment, i.e. from Feb to Jan. My question now is, when the entitlements increase in April 09, can they just say that bank hols are included, and not increase entitlements? Any thoughts?

liney

flea72 wrote: »

yes, they cant discriminate against p/t staff, and should pro-rata bank holidays if you dont work a monday (or friday in the case of easter b/h), but as b/hs can be included in holiday entitlement, you try reasoning with an employer who argues that if you kick up a stink, they will implement it so f/t staff dont get b/h in addition to holiday entitlement - when there is only one p/t member of staff (ie you) and the other 30 staff are f/t, then you can see the predicament

personally, its not worth losing a job over, so i play them at their own game, and do as little work as possible, whilst i am there

Flea

I have lost your train of thought as she has left already, and worked only Saturdays.

I have never been in the unfortunate situation to work for an employer who did not work holiday proceedure legally and fairly between part time and full time staff and quite frankly would kick up as a much of stink as i could, get myself sacked and go for unfair dismissal if that was the case. A doormat i am not.

I also tend to advise people of the correct and legal aspect as opposed to a "dont rock the boat", or "you'll never get it anyway" path. Some unscrupulous employers will bank on those assumptions in order to get out of paying the entitlements.

liney

eyeinthesky wrote: »

Hi CocoLoco, you don't say where you get the 5.3 figure from? Also, I would imagine you will only be able to claim for holiday in the current year, i.e. from the start of your company's leave year until the present. If their leave year is from April, then you would have to revise your calculations, as you will be a little short of a full year. I would be inclined to show your employer the info from direct.gov, before handing in your resignation, as I expect she will want to research it herself. Bank holidays shouldn't be a problem, as we don't have many on saturdays, but you may be entitled pro rata, i.e. one fifth of your working week for each bank holiday. Might be worth looking into.

The minimum entitlements were news to me, thank you for the info. My own holiday entitlement is 25 days plus bank holidays, but my company included them until I had completed one full company year of employment, i.e. from Feb to Jan. My question now is, when the entitlements increase in April 09, can they just say that bank hols are included, and not increase entitlements? Any thoughts?

They will not need to change anything - the 5.6 weeks does include bank holidays as per the government directive, which is 28 total for a 5 day a week worker. You already get (25+8) 33 days.

surreysaver

flea72 wrote: »

the company you work for chooses whether holiday is recorded in days or hours. it is not a 'fact' that holiday is based on hours worked, employers choose which way they would like to work it. the directgov website, refers to 'days' in all its holiday entitlement calculations

If you work varying shifts, then an average of your previous 17 weeks, working 'days' are taken to use for the calculation

the only time you would calculate holiday entitlement in hours, is if someone worked on a casual or irregular basis, but a whole other equation is used to work out their entitlement

Flea

In which case the DirectGov website is incorrect, as the legislation states it in weeks. They may put it in days, as it is easier to understand, but this calculation only works if you do the same number of days each week, and the same number of hours each day. Your employer may give you annual leave again in days, but again this only works if you do the same number of days each week, and the same number of hours each day.

And it is worked out in the number of hours, as this would be the only way to work it out if you need to calculate the average if you do not do the same number of hours each day or days each week.