Committal to prison - can I ask the magistrate to strike out the debt?

Light_Speed_Cruiser

Edit, a Departure is a CSA buzzword explained in a glossary of terms in the data bundle. Its where the CSA changes an assessment taking in unusual circumstances.

As I submitted certified business account and a self assessment tax form I had no reason to ask for a departure because the CSA said I generally pay a 30% levy on taxable income.

That worked fine until the CSA changed its mind and decided I am levied on business turnover including money paid to showgirls and a bookkeeper on the pretence they are girlfriends. In the data bundle the CSA are calling it "Diversion of Income".

I am not sure how or why the CSA would make a threat of a departure, does the CSA normally make threats?

blimey40

Have you a court date set?

its true to say that if you go to prison, the debt still stands but you cannot be taken to court over the same offence as that would be "double jeopardy". The sentence is 42 days and the CSA will look at different ways of getting money out of you after. I've never known anyone go to prison twice over non-compliance.

I would suggest to save up as much money as you can before the court date. They cannot send you to prison if you offer any reasonable kind of payment, its only when you refuse can they do this. I am not suggesting you go down this route, but bankruptcy is also option. If you agree contractually a payment plan you must stick to it, otherwise it leads to complications if you do not.

Failure to attend will mean a warrant for your arrest, then you really don't have a leg to stand on, once they catch up with you.

Also, if you have thought of going back to Manila then new powers allow them to confiscate your passport.

Light_Speed_Cruiser

Theres no committal date, I dont have a UK address for service so setting a date might not happen because a defendant has to be served notice beforehand.

You mention Double Jeopardy, do you know any legislation on this?

Confiscating passport will confine me to Britain and state benefits as I am an itenerant showman with pre-arranged tour dates. It wont do the taxpayer any favours at a time they can least afford it. Its a case of trying to take what I havnt got and the so-called 'willful refusal to pay' test will probably fail anyway.

If the assessment is not compliant with the Child Support Act, are you suggesting I should still pay it?

(Just spoken with a magistrates court - see next post)

Light_Speed_Cruiser

It has been suggested I take the liability orders to their respective magistrate's courts and make application to a magistrate to quash the liability orders.

The data protection bundle confirms the liability orders and peripheral documentation are not compliant with Section 33 of the Child Support Act 1991 and the address shown on the liability order document is in breach of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978.

I phoned a local magistrates court and there appears to be a provision allowing me to ask for an audience with a magistrate and ask the order to be quashed. Has anyone done this?

blimey40

Who suggested to quash the liability orders? I know the CSA are bullies and I call them the Con Support Agency, but getting these reversed will take time and in the meantime, you must be seen to do paying something. The court have just nodded to the CSA requests, but these are notoriously hard to get overturned and even prove ithey are correct. I should know, CSA have left the harder cases for years and now with the extra powers are crippling many NRPS. Some of which have been negilent, but some who have even paid there children directly.

The withdrawal of a passport will still be very part of the agenda. As for no fixed abode, they have so many other areas they can look into, banks, your NI number, where you passport is addressed to. They are really stamping hard now.

I am in a similar position, having no fixed abode and baliffs turning up at friends house. CSA want the payment paid within 2 years, I want a breakdown and my Data protection files and whilst this is being done, want to pay it over a 4 year period. This they have flatly refused, so now waiting for court appearance, but have been saving the payments I can afford and will take that with me whenever I get the court date. When my grand-daughter died 2002, I told them of the circumstance and was given a nil assessment. Six years later in 2008 I get a letter saying I owe 42k, after the LO served it was 26K. They advised, I did not need to turn up. Its being sly and just adding to the coffers of the governement, after all my ex was on benefits and they calcualted the arrears at £90 over a £270 weekly wage on the old CSA 1 system. She saw £20 if that.

blimey40

"Lightspeed cruiser" wrote,

I phoned a local magistrates court and there appears to be a provision allowing me to ask for an audience with a magistrate and ask the order to be quashed??

I don't thionk this is the case, but would be interested to see if it exists. You do have to accept that if you do this, the audience present could go against you.

Something, I do not know is whether you can make an arrangement with the court to pay? If so, they might be more flexible then the CSA, who are under orders from the government (presumably because they cannot run the economy) to get money back within 2 years.

Don't want to be judge and jury.

But if they do not have at least 1 address correct, how did you get your hands on the bundle or the liability order?

Light_Speed_Cruiser

Neither passport has an address in it. I think its my GB passport that is vulnerable. The CSA already has my bank statements on the data file, I am assuming its a new law allowing the CSA to approach a UK bank (or "deposit taker"). It shows minimal activity. My active bank account was Dollarised in 2003 and is not available to the UK and its a business name. My accountant moved the Company (which I trade in) to Guernsey but that was for tax reasons, nothing to do with CSA.

You have made some interesting points, but Im not an expert. Why did you ask a bailiff for a breakdown when the CSA can do it? Child Support legislation doesnt obligate an NRP to pay bailiffs fees and none are prescribed in any CSA secondary legislation.

I understood a liability order's maximum remit is £15,000. I asked why I have so many of them. How did you get one for 26K?

Light_Speed_Cruiser

I got the bundle because I asked the CSA for it. My son said some bailiffs at his house turned up in looking for me in 2007 and I picked up the trail. I used to own the property and the CSA played detective at HM Land Registry.

The CSA never wrote to me at my home address in Manila, a policy they dont corespond overseas so they look for a "confident address" and pretend I live there.

blimey40

to be fair we share some similarities.

Liability orders are definitely not restricted to 15k, (wish they were).

Baiscally the CSA told me of nil assessment in 2000, then again in 2002. Neively you think thats it and then paid daughter directly in 2003 after all she was 16 (no-one one ever told me it was until was she was 19!!) .

They have just gone from 2000-2005 and based it roughly on £90 per week (off a £270 wage) added some interest and bingo its 26k.

It laughable because my daughter is now 23. Yet, they are really trying to pin me down after years of neglect and no letters. The first letter appeared August 2008 statinga 3 year overpayment. They are simply useless.#
My account is also offshore, which I believe they cannot trace, but with new legislation they can do things with the passport and confiscate it.

blimey40

Apologies, did mean asking "CSA" for a breakdown which they have not sent. More importantly they broke every rule in the book, by not giving 7 days notice of the oiability order being served. As I say, have no fixed abode but have every letter (they have been passed onto me)