Help re: 'Order of recovery of unpaid penalty charge (parking)' letter please!

rednblack

Hi all.
Wonder if anyone can give some good advice?
My brother got a parking ticket for leaving his car in a residents parking bay in Islington about 6 months ago. The road in question (near the Arsenal stadium, although it wasn't a match day) is a mixture of pay and display and residents permit parking - unfortunately he chose the wrong bay and although he bought a ticket from the machine he was ticketed. He does not live in London and was therefore unfamiliar with the restrictions - the signs can be very confusing, particularly where residents parking bays alternate with pay and display.
At the time he was issued with the ticket he was going through a very stressful time with his marriage (he still is) and had just moved out of the marital home. Probably because of this he allowed a friend of his (who is a bank manager and was with him at the time) to appeal on his behalf. I have just seen the letters/e mails he wrote and to be honest, they are awful - hurried, confusing and written in text speak! He has also had a Notice to Owner to which my brothers friend wrote another short but confusing e mail (he didn't send in the form to challenge the notice).
An automated response was received from Islington council saying they would respond in 10 days, but no further reply was received.
The date of the 'offence' was 24-9-2008. The Notice to Owner was dated 30-10-2009 and the Order for recovery notice was not dated (surely that's not right?). My brother has until 16-3-2009 to pay the fine which has now more than trebled to £185.
So, my question is whether my brother has grounds to still appeal, or is it too late? Will they consider mitigating circumstances (ie. problems with his marriage, being unfamiliar with London parking restrictions etc.) and maybe reduce fine back to £60? or whether Islington council have breached their own rules in not replying to the last correspondence within the time limit (I think it should be about 56 days - an e mail was sent on the 16 Nov and next correspondence received on 26 Feb - more than 90 days by my reckoning!)
My brother knows he should have dealt with it more swiftly (and believe me. I've let him know), but especially as his marriage problems are largely due to his wife fleecing him for every penny he has, any advice would be more than welcome!
Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance!

Neil_B

You say you've seen things - but we haven't?!

on the OfR date - i'll get back on that. you missed one step - 'Charge Certificate'??

Most likely this will resolve around something you have already identified. The 'form and manner' of the second, formal appeal. May depend on what e-mail facility responded automatically. If not one that was available for formal reps then may not count - then again i doubt they'd argue - maybe.

The OfR will have come with 'Stat Dec' forms - yes? This is what you will need to do but lets see the documents you have first.
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rednblack

OK -I will try to upload the forms. With regard to the 'Charge Certificate' it is probable that this was sent to his marital home - communication with his wife has been difficult and she hides (unopened) anything that resembles a bill anyway!

rednblack

OK. Here are the letters/e mails and notices my brother has received from Islington council and e mails sent (i will try to keep them in order):

E mail to Islington Council:

From:
Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 3:07 PM
Subject: PCN IS
To: [URL="mhtml:{BE4D942C-DA63-4597-9A9B-EED528A331A5}mid://00000048/!x-usc:mailto:parking.appeals@islington.gov.uk"]parking.appeals@islington.gov.uk[/URL]



Dear Sirs,

I was very disappointed when yesterday (24th Sept) I returned to my parked car on Benwell Road and had a ticket on it. I had read the signs nearby and I had bought a ticket at the meter (ticket ref 00135607), which i will be more than happy to forward on to you, so I am not clear as to why I received this ticket.

Please can you advise me why I received this ticket and whether you would like me to forward on this ticket to you and if you require the original or if a photocopy will be good know.

I anticipate a swift reponse.

Yours Faithfully

XXXXXX XXXXX

Automated reply from Islington:

From: Appeals, Parking <[URL="mhtml:{BE4D942C-DA63-4597-9A9B-EED528A331A5}mid://00000052/!x-usc:mailto:Parking.Appeals&#64;islington.gov.uk"]Parking.Appeals@islington.gov.uk[/URL]>
Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Subject: Thank you for your email
To:


Thank you for your email which has been received by Islington Parking Services.
Please allow up to 10 working days for a response. In the unlikely event you have not heard from us within 10 working days, please telephone 020 7527 2000, quoting the Penalty Charge Notice (Parking Ticket) number.
If you have not provided a Parking Ticket number and your full postal address, please do so as this will assist us with our response.

(A response was sent back with my brothers name and address.


Formal reply from Islington Council:

---

Forwarded message

---

From: Harvey, Carol <[URL="mhtml:{BE4D942C-DA63-4597-9A9B-EED528A331A5}mid://00000066/!x-usc:mailto:Carol.Harvey&#64;islington.gov.uk"]Carol.Harvey@islington.gov.uk[/URL]>
Date: Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 9:26 AM
Subject: IS
To:



Dear Mr. XXXXX

Penalty Charge Notice No. ISXXXXXXX Date of Issue 24/09/2008 at 11:22

Location of Contravention Benwell Road, N7

Thank you for your email regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice which was recently received at this office.

The Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) was issued because you were parked in a residents bay and not a pay & display bay. The correct use of a parking place is clearly indicated by the wording on the sign which should be consulted at all times when parking.

As the PCN was issued correctly, payment is now due. I have decided that we can accept the discounted amount of £60.00 provided we receive that before 21.10.08. Please bear in mind that on that date the charge will increase to £120.00.

If you wish to continue to contest the matter, the next stage is that a Notice to Owner will be sent to the person responsible for the penalty charge. This is a necessary legal step and further correspondence will only delay this process.

I am afraid you are unlikely to get a further opportunity to make discounted payment. However, the Notice to Owner will establish liability for the Penalty Charge Notice and the grounds under which representations may be made. If representations are made at this stage and they are rejected, there will be the right of appeal to the independent adjudicator at the Parking & Traffic Appeals Service.

You can make a credit or debit card payment on - 020 7527 2000 - at any time. You can also pay on line at [URL="mhtml:{BE4D942C-DA63-4597-9A9B-EED528A331A5}mid://00000066/!x-usc:http://www.islington.gov.uk/"]www.islington.gov.uk[/URL]. If you prefer to pay by cheque, please make it payable to LB Islington and send it to the above address. Please write the PCN number on the back of the cheque. You may also send postal orders (quoting the PCN number).

If you wish to comment on my decision or on any aspect of the service you have received from us, please email [URL="mhtml:{BE4D942C-DA63-4597-9A9B-EED528A331A5}mid://00000066/!x-usc:mailto:parking.appeals&#64;islington.gov.uk"]parking.appeals@islington.gov.uk[/URL], with ‘Feedback’ in the subject header. Alternatively you can write to us at the above address.

Yours sincerely

Carol Harvey
Correspondence And Appeals Officer








Notice to Owner:







E mail sent to Islington Council:

From:
Date: Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Subject: IS
To: [URL="mhtml:{BE4D942C-DA63-4597-9A9B-EED528A331A5}mid://00000068/!x-usc:mailto:parking.appeals&#64;islington.gov.uk"]parking.appeals@islington.gov.uk[/URL]


I have received a notice to owner notice for the above parking ticket
which i would like to contest as when parking i deliberately bought a
pay and display ticket as that what the nearest sign i read told me to
do. I am now being told it was residents parking only which changes up
and down the road which is very confusing and not very clear, due to
the fact a parking meter was there i was sure i was doing the right
thing. Secondly the parking notice says the offence took place at
11.22 and the photos taken show my car was there at 11.24 so there is
no proof i was there at 11.22 when the offence was alleged, due to
this i feel the penalty charge notice should be void. I hope to hear
from u soon. XXXXXX XXXXXX

The same automated response as before was received back immediately.









OK, I hope I have done this correctly. This is all the correspondence we have.
Thanks

Neil_B

there are so many flaws on those docs i can't keep track.

hold fire and i'll get back when i find a mo.

meanwhile - you obscured the date on the NtO?? I need that to explain something.

Were there forms to make a Statutory Declaration enclosed with the OfR??
You are going to have to make one.

rednblack

Morning Neil

Thanks for your replies so far - you sound hopeful that we may be able to do something here! It is appreciated.

The date on the NtO is 30-10-2008.

The only documents I have with the OfR are what are posted - although that doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't anything else (my brother passed everything to his friend and got them back yesterday). The documents do mention form TE9 (link: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/te9_e.pdf)



Thanks again for your help so far.

Edit: just realised that tthe OfR was only received on thursday - so the last 4 documents you see above are the only forms which came with that document.

Neil_B

Sorry mate - me being dozy. It was late and I was so busy laughing at the NtO I didn't even notice you HAD shown everything!!

OK, Where I mentioned 'Statutory Declaration' - that actually refers to what you have.
It seems that a 'Witness Statement' is sufficient. (Stat Dec is similar but needs countersigning). I think they've given you the correct form but I'll check it out for you.

Complete the WS form TE9 on the basis appeal made and no response received. (Make sure that is true).
Normally this automatically sets the matter back to PCN or NtO stage - for you it will be NtO stage so amount due will become £120- again.

You can fax this to TEC and they are helpful on the phone - so just check it gets received all ok.

I believe when TEC instruct Islington to set the procedure back that they will have to send you a new NtO - again, i'll check but it would be essential to set new deadlines.

You then have a choice of paying or submitting a proper representation.

I'll run through the flaws in the existing NtO later and I'll look into your point about the undated OfR

Neil_B

Just a quick note.

It seems from reading the NtO that Reps by e-mail are an acceptable 'form'.

Don't lose those auto-response e-mails.

rednblack

Thanks again.

Just one thing before I get my brother to fill out the form. What would the repercussions be if they had actually replied to the appeal to the NtO, by post to his marital home, but he made the witness statement believing it to be true?

As I mentioned before, the breakdown of his marriage has been difficult and his wife has not been opening any post for months (even before the breakup) and she certainly hasn't been passing anything on to him since he left the house.

Would a covering letter sent with the Witness Statement stating the mitigating circumstances of his marriage breakup be appropriate and looked upon sympathetically?

Neil_B

Hmmm. Now you say that - it is a bit tricky isn't it.

Would depend on the definition of 'receiving' it. I honestly can't say I know. I suspect though that adding detail like you suggested might cause more problems - i.e. indicating it isn't true - possibly - again depending on how 'received' is defined.

i'm not gonna say I know the answer when I don't. You should take this to 'PePiPoo' and maybe also speak to 'Herbie21' on this forum - who is a top notch expert on that end of the enforcement process.

She would also know the answer to the OfR date question.
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rednblack

OK thanks. I have pm'd herbie21 and will post on PePiPoo. Lets see what happens.