Visa or not?

Cardew

As chaffordred has shown above the only relevant question he has to answer is the ones he has displayed(in green) from the I-94W. He can quite truthfully answer 'No' to that question.

If you don't know what a crime of moral turpitude is you are not alone and in fact there is no legal definition of such a crime - even in the USA. It is determined by precedent and those that are so classified are really serious crimes.

Now the green form is all he is required to answer and he doesn't need to look anywhere else. Unfortunately some people have looked at the regulations in the US Embassy website which even by American standards are the most unclear regulations you will ever find.

In there it clearly states that if you have ever been arrested - even in a case of mistaken identity 40 years ago - technically you need a visa. It is obviously a nonsense but it is written that way.

The regulations say that minor traffic offences do not stop you using the Visa Waiver. However there is an unfortunate phrase that states

"Travelers with minor traffic offenses which did not result in an arrest and/or conviction for the offense may travel visa free,"

A few 'barrack room lawyers' have tried to interpret this in a way that means any conviction means you need a visa. They further try to justify this by saying that a fixed penaly notice is not a conviction. However if you dispute a parking ticket and lose you are convicted. Many years ago all offences - riding a bike without lights - resulted in a conviction and perhaps a 5 shilling fine.

One might well ask why the complex questions are asked on the I-94W if the regulations meant anyone with any conviction(however minor and however long ago) debarred them from a visa waiver.

Some countries on the VWP do not have our system of fixed penalties so they pick up convictions for parking etc; and they use the same form as we do when many can't speak English.

Anyway this load of rubbish about 'convictions' touted by these barrack-room lawyers is repeated on internet forums and unbelievably gains credence. There are also those who seem to take great pleasure in worrying people – schadenfreude. The sad thing is that they succeed as evidenced by this and countless other threads.

Million of Europeans enter the USA with minor convictions quite legally. Your son should do the same.

jenny2115

Thanks for all your help and advise...your postings have put my mind at ease a bit...think we will probably go without it, as you said he can truthfully answer no to all the questions asked on the green form, (got an image of the full form and he can no to all questions)

Thanks again!
J :-)

monkeyspanner

Take a look at this thread which went into the technicalities of motoring offences and USA visas in more detail.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=26578

Looks like it comes down to if your son was arrested and/or had to appear in court.
But I don't think USA immigration is really looking for people who have minor traffic offences. I have an SP30 and have entered the USa several times since and hired cars with no problem.

Hope this helps.

hammy_the_hammer

the only point jenny that would concern me is what info did you give to the embassy ? did you give name , address , passport number etc it's possible that he could get a grilling if they have 'highlighted' a possible problem. i would have just gone with the visa waiver programme. 2 speeding offences with fines is all they would need to know if required

jenny2115

Never told the embassy anything...it was just a general enquiry, no name, address or details given, decided not to take it further if we start proceedings they we would need to follow it through...

been talking to my son about it, although he went to court, he just went down to the station and the police told him he would be charged and would hear from the courts, he didn`t get his finger prints, photo or anything taken, does that mean he wasn`t arrested?

Thanks again...the panic is slowly wearing off...

J :-)

hammy_the_hammer

by what you've just posted jenny i really think he falls into the bottom category. he's been fined for speeding twice, that's it really . he hasn't commited a felony . i can't remember what it's classed as when you have your fingerprints done . by the way you need to convince your son as he'll look as guilty as hell at immigration. fill in the waiver form as scanned in by someone above ....the questions are all pretty obvious ...do you want to come into our country... tick here
or ... do you want to be deported .... tick here

jenny2115

I have let him read over the posts on this site, and hes really fine with it now, think we are just leaving it, only thing is that in our haste yesterday to get things moving quickly, we sent away for the subject access statement, but I assume that won`t matter as long as we didn`t contact the embassy.

I have an image of the full form and will go over all the questions with him before he goes so he knows axactly what to do, its pretty straight forward.

You have all been a great help, I don`t know what I would do without this board sometimes...

Thanks
J :-)

Cardew

jenny2115 wrote:

I have let him read over the posts on this site, and hes really fine with it now, think we are just leaving it, only thing is that in our haste yesterday to get things moving quickly, we sent away for the subject access statement, but I assume that won`t matter as long as we didn`t contact the embassy.

J :-)

Never told the embassy anything...it was just a general enquiry, no name, address or details given, decided not to take it further if we start proceedings they we would need to follow it through...

Jenny,
Your son really needs to get one thing absolutely clear.

He is absolutely entitled to use the Visa Waiver Program!

There is a impression gained from the last few posts that he is somehow doing something wrong and having to 'hide' his offences from the Embassy and US Immigration. He is not doing anything wrong.

He puts 'No' on the I-94W and he shouldn't ask US Immigration anything. The only danger is if he raises anything with the Immigration officer they may think he is hiding a more serious offence; that might mean additional questioning but will only mean a delay - nothing else.

waster_2

Firstly agree with Cardew, he is entitled to enter under VWP.
Secondly, the US DO NOT have access to our criminal records system anyway as it contravenes the Data Protection Act to allow them to do so. So they cannot check whether you have a record in any case.
Thirdly, as general advice if you need a quicker appointment if you really do need a visa then you can always go to the US Embassy's Belfast office. Normally you can get an appoiontment much quicker there and if you are in Scotland it is probably just as quick and cheap to get to Belfast as London?

Cardew

Hate to disagree with someone who agreed with me, but you have given the wrong impression on your second point.

Whilst US Immigration do not have routine access to our CRO records, there is an agreement between UK and the USA that allows either country to request information on an individual's record from the other country. However it is a long-winded process and is not undertaken lightly. Incidentally convictions relevant to USA entry are never time expired.