Hatfield has last laugh on Thatcher.

Tribulation

Zagu wrote: »

What are you suggesting? That the country should payroll communities in some philanthropic gesture to pacify a community? The truth is that industries constantly change, and to artificially support an industry is unrealistic, and unjust on the rest of the country. It also means that any new ventures will shy away from the area, as the manpower won't be available.

So we let all the loss making banks and car industries go bankrupt then

Tribulation

chris_spackman wrote: »

Unions do cause lots of problems.

Unions got too big for their boots and did need taking down a peg or two. But Thatcher got personal and destroyed a whole industry (I'd argue country) in the process. We ended up with just a financial/service industry and virtually zero manufacturing.

Then we had mass privatisation etc.

The end result is all people are interested in is making a quick buck at everyone else's expense. As long as the shareholders are making money, everyone's happy.

People who worked hard for many many years building up an industry/company are kicked out the door because the shareholders can make a bit more money moving manufacturing/help-desks elsewhere in the world.

Peoples new found greed gave them huge aspirations, pushing up house prices etc to the point where the average person earning min wage can't afford to buy and can't afford to rent.

My own 4 bed house was brought in 2000 for 53K and is now worth 140K, At the time you could have brought a terraced house around here for 25K, easily doable by a couple on min wage. Now if your on min wage, you simply cant get on the ladder.

Unions realise their workers cant afford to live, hence kick up a stink. Then the press etc think "bloody unions" again.

The fact of the matter is that Unions were introduced as people were being abused in the workplace. Now unions are on the way out, what's happening?

For example, how many of you have a full hour lunch break now?

Zagu

Tribulation wrote: »

So we let all the loss making banks and car industries go bankrupt then

Banks, no. Cars, yes.

It's essential that we don't let the banks go under, but they are in quite a unique position.

Running_Horse

Tribulation wrote: »

Unions got too big for their boots and did need taking down a peg or two. But Thatcher got personal and destroyed a whole industry (I'd argue country) in the process. We ended up with just a financial/service industry and virtually zero manufacturing.

{snip}

For example, how many of you have a full hour lunch break now?

The Chinese destroyed our manufacturing base, as did everyone who bought their goods to save a few quid, and who can blame them?

I worked in one of the grotty low pay factories that became a block of flats, and you are welcome to that kind of job. It was horrible. Those too lazy to retrain or get qualifications must take their chances in an unforgiving world.

Oh, and I now work in skilled manufacturing, and still take all my breaks.

fc123

Running_Horse wrote: »

The Chinese destroyed our manufacturing base, as did everyone who bought their goods to save a few quid, and who can blame them?

I worked in one of the grotty low pay factories that became a block of flats, and you are welcome to that kind of job. It was horrible. Those too lazy to retrain or get qualifications must take their chances in an unforgiving world.

Oh, and I now work in skilled manufacturing, and still take all my breaks.

I want to thank this twice.
I make stuff, I happen to make it here because that's what works for now. My sector has been wiped out UK manufacturing wise during the past decade and I know a few of the people who were affected.
Family business sent back to subsisdence level in a shed after 3 generations built it up...from a similar type of shed.

Things change, it's what happens. I was chatting to my old wise dad about internet selling...he recalls the original research many, many years ago.
He likened it to the inventing of the car and the effect on horse breeders, blacksmiths and the rest....it took time (few decades) for the changes to impact society and the way things were done...but the change was going to happen anyway.

I sympathise with mining communities (and know a Welsh farming community affected by the 'devaluation' of the sheep.....making their farm unviable) but things change....it's unstoppable most of the time. I know the fallout is tough to bear but old ways can't always be preserved.

I may run a 'Lost Skills Centre' on (or near) Chesil Beach when I am an old lady.
If I can keep the skills here via selling products that people want to buy at a price that pays...then that's a bonus.....and the exp shed on Chesil beach can be purely for leisure.
Seems to me that that is the key.

I have never known a miner but I know ~(and include myself) of those who had to either give up or try to compete on a different level.

baileysbattlebus

during the recession of the 90's the government just appeared hard and callous - "if it's not hurting, it's not working" John Major said as homes were repossessed and firms went bankrupt - a catastrophe or a "necessary shake out" according the the govt.

"If unemployment is the price have to pay to keep inflation down, then it is a price worth paying" - Norman Lamont. If a senior conservative said that now they'd be sacked.

The conservatives will have to show that they actually give a sh*t about the people they previously thought of as expendable during the war on inflation and who it blamed for the predicament they (people) found themselves in..

At least the current govt give the impression that they give a toss, whether they have made a mess of it or not.

bo_drinker

Brown and Co are in the !!!!!! as are many other countries. Cameron is full of cr4p for the cameras with no real answers. How many have tried to lead the Tory party in recent years I've lost count/ interest to be honest. No matter what your politics are there is NO real clout going on with other parties just usual jibes and sniping getting us nowhere fast as I see it. Jobs for the boys/ girls claim expenses along the way for 2nd homes etc etc... The recession will not make a difference to them at the end of the day really.

tuggy12

Running_Horse wrote: »

The Chinese destroyed our manufacturing base, as did everyone who bought their goods to save a few quid, and who can blame them?
I worked in one of the grotty low pay factories that became a block of flats, and you are welcome to that kind of job. It was horrible. Those too lazy to retrain or get qualifications must take their chances in an unforgiving world.
Oh, and I now work in skilled manufacturing, and still take all my breaks.

Couldn't agree more.

Nothing lasts - everything changes.

This was beautifully captured by Shelly in his poem Ozymandias, you can read it here.

Rochdale_Pioneers

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

during the recession of the 90's the government just appeared hard and callous - "if it's not hurting, it's not working" John Major said as homes were repossessed and firms went bankrupt - a catastrophe or a "necessary shake out" according the the govt.

"If unemployment is the price have to pay to keep inflation down, then it is a price worth paying" - Norman Lamont. If a senior conservative said that now they'd be sacked.

The conservatives will have to show that they actually give a sh*t about the people they previously thought of as expendable during the war on inflation and who it blamed for the predicament they (people) found themselves in..

At least the current govt give the impression that they give a toss, whether they have made a mess of it or not.

And thats why the current transient poll lead for the Tories is transient. Its funny that when it all but vanished before Christmas poll watchers were decrying the polls, now they are saying "this is the 1,000 year trend that will sweep Cameron to power"

And they may well be right about him winning. But there is a long way to go before the election, and we await how things pan out over the summer. Basically the ameron pitch to the country will be this. I know that the world has created a new fiscal framework and set in place a new regulated state-interventionist financial model, but they're all wrong. What we need to protect us from deregulated markets is deregulation. We can't afford to pay back the amount of money we have borrowed so I am going to take an axe to public services and business support right now and if that means a load of you lose your jobs well they weren't real jobs anyway. There will of course be tax cuts - always money for those - not that your type will see them.

Its going to be a hard pitch.

nickmason

You're very lucky, because I wrote a nice long diatribe against Rochdale's politicking. And then lost it with a network failure. Act of God, no doubt.

In short, Rochdale, get over yourself. It will be your party that messed up and gave power back to the Conservatives. But frankly at a cost that most Conservatives would wish we hadn't had to bear.

But can you also stop your deliberate "dark-arts" politicking:
"1000 years" - where's this quote from, apart from a dogwhistle against third reich within the labour party spin machine.
"[always money for tax-cuts] - not that your type will see them" - I assume you know baileysbattlebus and his/her type. Or is this just trying to enforce the message so that when there is hardship you can claim that the proceeds of that hardship are going to others - the privileged few - and perpetuating the dishonesty of the labour government that the budget deficit - state overspending - is a hangover from their profligacy that we're all going to have to pay for?