purchase of house with loft conversion

chickmug

shem56 wrote: »

update on current situation re loft conversion. The Vendor is now looking to obtain retrospective approval from the council. Has anyone any idea how long such things take as our mortgate offer runs out at the beginning of August.

I have found after the event this has been one of the reasons for many sales to suddenly start going very slooooow. If you are lucky 6 weeks but if not it can be a lot longer. Planning decision outcomes are not that easy to predict.

chickmug

My last post was assuming you were asking about planning permission? Not sure if you were though

owen1978

Interesting... the house i have bid for is advertised 2 bed house with a loft room - which
was done by the vendors dad who was a builder. When i come to insure the house
i will insure it as a 2 bed house, but will the insurance company still make a fuss about the loft room?

shem56

I have no idea but I would seriously do my homework as it is a nightmare!

nansenst

owen1978 wrote: »

Interesting... the house i have bid for is advertised 2 bed house with a loft room - which
was done by the vendors dad who was a builder. When i come to insure the house
i will insure it as a 2 bed house, but will the insurance company still make a fuss about the loft room?

I used to have a 2 bed terrace with a loft room - the insurance company was fine.
The house was sold to me as a two bed with loft room and sold on the same (with an indemnity insurance policy of £6). Apparently at the time i sold the house (around 2005) the area of the loft in square meters was below the threshold required for planning permission, therefore no fire doors etc were needed. But dont quote me on that - check with your solicitor and make sure they run all the relevant checks on the loft.

jackieb

lincroft1710 wrote: »

As it's been in existence for 8 yrs joists may be OK, insulation you can't tell easily if it has actually been done. If I were buying I'd want to know why these certs haven't been issued. As it stands you have a 3 bed house with a loft conversion that may have very limited use and were I in your position I would value it as such and so reduce offer. If you don't want any hassle, walk away.

It is of course your decision, but if the joists and insulation weren't done I would imagine it would mean a lot of mess and upheaval, not to mention cost just to get these done.

We sold our house last year. We had the loft converted in 1999 and even though it was more than 8 years, we still needed the completion certificate before we could sell. We had a structural engineer before we started, so all the joists, stairs and windows were done to spec.

ab7167

shem56 wrote: »

Also we are now wondering if the floor of the loft is actually over a supporting wall and therefore, may not have needed additional joists.

This would be an unusual situation - do you mean that there is an internal wall around the midpoint of the joist span and that you think the wall is acting to support the floor?

Bear in mind that if the wall was an exisitng one and wasn't replaced at the time of the conversion, it would be unlikely that it would have been designed as a loadbearing wall. In addition, whatever the wall is resting on would have to be capable of carrying the loads as well - does the wall sit on the first floor joists, or does it go through the first floor to the foundations?

For loft conversions to be successful, it would be extremely uncommon for the original ceiling joists not to need replacing with floor joists.

To get retrospective consent may take a while. If there was an architect and structural engineer involved and they have as-built drawings with calculations to justify, a full plans certificate may be issued. If this is not the case, then Building Control may require the vendor to open up part of the works so they can inspect for compliance.

The insulation aspect of the works is a funny one - the conversion was done in 2001. The current version of Approved Document L was issued in 2006, but unfortunately as you are going for retrospective consent the work will have to comply with the CURRENT regulations, not those in force at the time the work was completed (to the best of my knowledge - I am happy to be proved wrong on this point). The current regulations are significantly more stringent than the previous ones, so this may cause problems.

At the end of the day, this is about the loft being safe to use. BR does not only cover structural safety, but things like fire, access, drainage (is there an en suite?) and electrical safety.

From a structural point of view, I would be very keen to check the floor joists - timber can 'creep' over a number of years, so if the joists are not adequate you may get a saggy floor in years to come.

At the very least, if consent is not forthcoming, it is only a 3 bedroom house - and I would say worth LESS than a normal 3 bed, as you may have the cost of remedial works if in the future you have problems that should have been sorted in the design stage.

Alex

poppysarah

Do they have to consider electrial compliance too?

ab7167

I think so. My expertise is as a structural engineer, not an architect, so I don't really get involved with anything apart from Part A compliance (structural stuff) - but I believe to obtain retrospective consent you have to comply with all parts of the BR's. Good point about electrical complaince, as again, Part P has been reissued since this conversion was done - and again is much stricter than before, requiring work to be carried out ONLY by a competent electrician - you can't do your own work anymore and have it comply with building regulations. Minor work is permissable, such as changing like-for-like (new style fittings etc), but major works and any work to a bathroom or kitchen must be done and signed off by an electrician certified to to works to Part P of the regulations.

Alex

poppysarah

As much as it's important to check the structure won't collapse it'd probably be nice to know the electrics are sound even if you don't have to part p them.