Anger as BMW sacks 850 'agency' workers

caveman38

Surely before we all feel too sorry for these guys, we need all the facts.
Were they on agency rates or the same rates as the resident staff. Were they of the opinion that it was a permanent job or long term temporary.
Also did they pay union dues, if not why would the union represent them.
How do the regular staff feel towards the dismissals. If they have had to endure working with agency staff being paid more. They may not feel too peeved, especially if they have also had to pay union dues from their lesser pay.
Do we know these answers.

Dithering_Dad

wymondham wrote: »

Who on earth want's to buy a BMW Mini anyway (Bini) - get the REAL Mini - they are 50 this year and very cheap to run and repair yourself - very suited to recessions - perfect moneysaving!!

(As you see from my avatar I'm biased!! )

I've long admired your avatar wymondham.

My first car was a mini, I had a Mini HL, X reg when I was a student. I used to service it myself. I wouldn't have a clue where to start with a modern car.

bo_drinker

Also I wonder when the ones that took out 125% mortgages etc etc did they forget to tell the banks they were agency workers and therefore the job is unsafe. ITYF not.
Also when rumours were going around ITYF the knives were out as agency staff were getting more money. Seen it all before.

olly300

bo_drinker wrote: »

Also I wonder when the ones that took out 125% mortgages etc etc did they forget to tell the banks they were agency workers and therefore the job is unsafe. ITYF not.
.

When you take out a mortgage, credit card or open a bank account you have to state who your employer is and how long you have worked for them. In the case of agency staff they would put the full name and address of their agency.

You also have to put what type of worker you are however some financial companies don't distinguish between temporary full-time workers and permanent full-time workers.

As lending criteria was lax over the past through years the fact that they were agency staff clearly shown by them putting down the name and address of the agency, wouldn't have been followed up.

aeuerby

There seems to be a little bit of animosity towards agency/contractor staff.
They may or may not get paid a larger hourly rate than permies, however, out of that wage they have to pay national insurance as employee as well as employer and either the costs for an umbrella company or an accountant.
They do not have holiday pay or sick pay. They do not get the "perks" that the permies get.

Most contactors know this when going into the job and do not see the job as permanent, indeed the government got in on the act and introduced the "IR35" which doesn't give the contacters much of an advantage over the permies.

Some contractors don't have much choice but to be one. It's that or the dole.
At least they are/were paying their way in taxes.

I would also like to point out that when we remortgaged at the the end of 2007, we went through Contactor Financials.
We were upfront with the fact that hubby was a contractor of only 3 months, self employed before that. We knew what we could afford and didn't borrow even close to that limit.
We were granted the remortgage and can still afford the payments.
Not everyone is stupid and devious when coming to their finances.

brightonman123

i dont think all these new jobs will help the economy much, as kfc etc pay very little- not much for people to live on, let alone go out and have a spending spree!

caveman38

aeuerby wrote: »

There seems to be a little bit of animosity towards agency/contractor staff.
They may or may not get paid a larger hourly rate than permies, however, out of that wage they have to pay national insurance as employee as well as employer and either the costs for an umbrella company or an accountant.
They do not have holiday pay or sick pay. They do not get the "perks" that the permies get.

Most contactors know this when going into the job and do not see the job as permanent, indeed the government got in on the act and introduced the "IR35" which doesn't give the contacters much of an advantage over the permies.

Some contractors don't have much choice but to be one. It's that or the dole.
At least they are/were paying their way in taxes.

I would also like to point out that when we remortgaged at the the end of 2007, we went through Contactor Financials.
We were upfront with the fact that hubby was a contractor of only 3 months, self employed before that. We knew what we could afford and didn't borrow even close to that limit.
We were granted the remortgage and can still afford the payments.
Not everyone is stupid and devious when coming to their finances.

You may be right with your sentiments, but. In a high percentage of cases workers choose the agency route because of the high wages.
In the construction industry for example. Engineers in London may be salaried at £30K. They work alongside agency staff who are on £22 per hour X 10 hrs a day X 6 days a week. They earn twice the salary of permanent staff. Now the industry is struggling they are the first to go. No tears are shed by the permanent staff.
I am not suggesting that in the BMW case it is the same, but it may be.
There are plenty of other examples. Nursing - agency staff are on twice SRN rates. I am sure there are plenty of others.
As I have said in earlier post. What are the facts re. this discussion and what are the feelings of the permanent staff.

aeuerby

caveman38 wrote: »

You may be right with your sentiments, but. In a high percentage of cases workers choose the agency route because of the high wages.
In the construction industry for example. Engineers in London may be salaried at £30K. They work alongside agency staff who are on £22 per hour X 10 hrs a day X 6 days a week. They earn twice the salary of permanent staff. Now the industry is struggling they are the first to go. No tears are shed by the permanent staff.
I am not suggesting that in the BMW case it is the same, but it may be.
There are plenty of other examples. Nursing - agency staff are on twice SRN rates. I am sure there are plenty of others.
As I have said in earlier post. What are the facts re. this discussion and what are the feelings of the permanent staff.

When my hubby was at JLR he certainly wasn't on twice the permies salary!
He could only work 37 hours a week and no more.
Construction, London based work and nursing I have no experience of so cannot comment but I think it's wrong to think that just because some contactors earn more that permies they all do.
Like I said the government worked this out and got in on the act. Google IR35 and have a look.

caveman38

aeuerby wrote: »

When my hubby was at JLR he certainly wasn't on twice the permies salary!
He could only work 37 hours a week and no more.
Construction, London based work and nursing I have no experience of so cannot comment but I think it's wrong to think that just because some contactors earn more that permies they all do.
Like I said the government worked this out and got in on the act. Google IR35 and have a look.

I am not disputing what you are saying. I am just saying that we don't know the facts - except they were not warned and that the union were not involved.
Other examples of temps are in within office work ie. typing etc. again their rates are (I am led to beleive) 40% higher than permanent staff. Again some girls are on temping agencies permanently because of that.
We don't need to argue about this as we don't know all the facts.

aeuerby

caveman38 wrote: »

I am not disputing what you are saying. I am just saying that we don't know the facts - except they were not warned and that the union were not involved.
Other examples of temps are in within office work ie. typing etc. again their rates are (I am led to beleive) 40% higher than permanent staff. Again some girls are on temping agencies permanently because of that.
We don't need to argue about this as we don't know all the facts.

Oh my goodness I wan't trying to argue with you.:sad::sad:
I was trying to point out that not all contactors get the excellent wages.
Quite a few members of my family have been contactors and not one of them have been on the excellent wages - even the typists!!!
I was trying to get another view into the discussion as a lot of people believe all contractors are on an good screw and they aren't.

Sorry if I offended you, I really didn't mean to :sad::sad: