Advice please

Fred_Bear_2

I'll be as brief as possible. 0% HSBC credit card deal coming to an end in March. I received a statement dated 20th Jan stating minimum payment would be taken on 16th Feb. That's fine but to avoid interest I wanted future payments to be for the full amount. I phoned HSBC and they said I would need to complete a new mandate form. I did this and posted it to HSBC 2nd class on 9th Feb. Because of experience with other credit cards I assumed this would be actioned on the following month's statement but instead HSBC took the full balance (£4,000) today.
I checked my Alliance & Leicester current account at 3 minutes past midnight last night and found my account had an overdraft. I immediately transferred £4,000 from savings and this was credited at 5 minutes past midnight, so I had been overdrawn for 5 minutes and am expecting some hefty penalty charges to follow.
My question is: should I throw myself on the mercy A&L, challenge HSBC for changing the payment without warning or do nothing?

Sharon87

Does A&L charge if you transferred the money to cover the overdraft during the same day? I know Halifax doesn't, it's processed at the end of the day. You might be lucky and get no charges, although don't quote me on that I've never used A&L.

milfordmadness

Fred_Bear wrote: »

I'll be as brief as possible. 0% HSBC credit card deal coming to an end in March. I received a statement dated 20th Jan stating minimum payment would be taken on 16th Feb. That's fine but to avoid interest I wanted future payments to be for the full amount. I phoned HSBC and they said I would need to complete a new mandate form. I did this and posted it to HSBC 2nd class on 9th Feb. Because of experience with other credit cards I assumed this would be actioned on the following month's statement but instead HSBC took the full balance (£4,000) today.

They cannot do this, they have to give you 10 days notice before taking any funds. Ring your bank and claim refund under DD Guarantee.

Fred_Bear wrote: »

I checked my Alliance & Leicester current account at 3 minutes past midnight last night and found my account had an overdraft. I immediately transferred £4,000 from savings and this was credited at 5 minutes past midnight, so I had been overdrawn for 5 minutes and am expecting some hefty penalty charges to follow.

My question is: should I throw myself on the mercy A&L, challenge HSBC for changing the payment without warning or do nothing?

Utilise the DD Guarantee and mention to your bank they are bang out of order for paying it. It it their fault, as well as the originator (i.e. HSBC c/card)

Also, if a transaction happens at the same time credits usually process then debits afterwards. For the sake of 5mins it would be written off, no charge as it would be impossible to work out (percentage of minutes debit into a daily apr!)

Hope this helps - Milford

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DD Guarantee:

The Guarantee is operated by all banks and building societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own bank or building society.

If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, the organisation will notify you normally 10 working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed.

If an error is made by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid.

You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing to your bank or building society. Please also send a copy of your letter to the organisation.

milfordmadness

Direct Debit - Know Your Rights....

http://www.bacs.co.uk/BACS/Consumers/Direct+Debit/Your+rights/

Fred_Bear_2

Thanks for the quick and informative replies.
Sharon87: I don't know the answer to this and phoning A&L didn't help - they have asked me to phone again tomorrow.
milfordmadness: HSBC's guarantee says they need to give only 7 days notice. Again HSBC couldn't give me any help on the phone. They said I had to call back the DD dept in two days time.
In my original post I said I posted the DD mandate form on 9th February. On reflection it may have been before this. I dated the form 31st Jan but was then 'snowed in' for several days. We did not receive any post until 6th Feb and I didn't venture out till Sunday 8th. In any case I did not receive any notice from HSBC which I understand is the crucial thing. Perhaps HSBC will claim to have sent me notice.

milfordmadness

Fred_Bear wrote: »

Thanks for the quick and informative replies.
Sharon87: I don't know the answer to this and phoning A&L didn't help - they have asked me to phone again tomorrow.
milfordmadness: HSBC's guarantee says they need to give only 7 days notice. Again HSBC couldn't give me any help on the phone. They said I had to call back the DD dept in two days time.
In my original post I said I posted the DD mandate form on 9th February. On reflection it may have been before this. I dated the form 31st Jan but was then 'snowed in' for several days. We did not receive any post until 6th Feb and I didn't venture out till Sunday 8th. In any case I did not receive any notice from HSBC which I understand is the crucial thing. Perhaps HSBC will claim to have sent me notice.

It doesn't matter what HSBC say their terms are - the law states 10 working days (usually defined as 14 days). I added the links to the official website, read that and the faq's - then do what they tell you. Its simple process to get funds back.

Don't worry, you will not get charged for 5mins overdraft and if thats the only problem then its a lesson learned.

HSBC will try and say they sent you the letter, in your arguement (if you pursue it) you just have to say you have not received the DD Guarantee - don;t mention about snow/living in sticks or problems etc lol. Won't help your cause much being 'too' honest!

You have to ring the DD dept in 2 days cos it can take a few days to post onto your account, i,e even though you have paid it could still be returned and until they have the hard cash they will not do anything.

Can you clarify, you have a cc with HSBC and you bank with A&L, you requested the DD be taken from your A&L account and it was taken too early, is that what you're saying? If so then you need to go to A&L and claim the cash back under the DD Guarantee immediately claiming it was taken without authorisation and all that should have been sent was the min payment. Due to you not getting a copy of the DD Guarantee from HSBC, you never knew they intended to take full payment. Therefore you want the funds back.

A&L have to do this. Not their choice, they must do it. Then when you get cash back you ring and pay minimum payment manually as they cannot take a DD again in time (you'll miss a payment otherwise) and then start over, paying full amount from next month so you request a new DD mandate from HSBC or ring them and sort it over the phone which is quicker and easier.

Hope this helps.

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For info:

DD Guarantee:

The Guarantee is operated by all banks and building societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own bank or building society.

If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, the organisation will notify you normally 10 working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed.

If an error is made by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid.

You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing to your bank or building society. Please also send a copy of your letter to the organisation.

milfordmadness

Seems you're not alone: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=8814323

Fred_Bear_2

milfordmadness wrote: »

They cannot do this, they have to give you 10 days notice before taking any funds.

If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, the organisation will notify you normally 10 working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed.

I think 'or as otherwise agreed' allows for them to give 7 days notice as stated in their guarantee which was on the mandate I signed. Or is there, in law, a minimum notice period which they are not able go below?

Fred_Bear_2

milfordmadness wrote: »

Can you clarify, you have a cc with HSBC and you bank with A&L, you requested the DD be taken from your A&L account and it was taken too early, is that what you're saying?

I've had a CC with HSBC for about a year and always pay the minimum payment by DD. After receiving the January statement (payable 16th Feb) I asked to make future payments in full. I completed a new DD mandate (with guarantee section attached) and posted it to HSBC. Without giving me notice they applied this to the January statement and paid it in full. I assumed, rightly or wrongly that the new DD would start with the February statement. This has always happened with other credit cards in the past.

An added problem is that if A&L have bounced the DD, or if I instruct them to to refund the DD as per guarantee, then I will have failed to make a payment and HSBC will be able to charge me interest and penalty charges.

milfordmadness

Fred_Bear wrote: »

I think 'or as otherwise agreed' allows for them to give 7 days notice as stated in their guarantee which was on the mandate I signed. Or is there, in law, a minimum notice period which they are not able go below?

Ok, so you state you thought the standard 14 days would apply, but more to the point they have to write to you at least 10 days before deducting the first payment. Either way, you never seen the DD Guarantee so request refund via your bank!

Simple to sort. If you're paying it off next month though and dont need the £4k then just leave it, not worth the hassle as you won't get charged for going o/d as you credited the same day.

milfordmadness

Fred_Bear wrote: »

An added problem is that if A&L have bounced the DD, or if I instruct them to to refund the DD as per guarantee, then I will have failed to make a payment and HSBC will be able to charge me interest and penalty charges.

No, read other post I told you what needs to be done! You ring and pay using card!