Public versus private debt. Where Brown DID go wrong

Sir_Humphrey

nickmason wrote: »

Give me a percentage of consumer spending that you reckon is "conspicuous consumption". Unless you argue it's huge - say over 30%, and I would seriously challenge anything over 5% - then the point I make is valid.
>

I was not treating it as an economic definition, and you cannot put an exact number on it.

The two biggest expenditures that people make are on houses and cars, and both have been sources of conspicuous consumption over the last years (cars particularly). I suspect these areas would tip the figure over 5% alone.

I do not intend to provide a detailed definition of conspicuous consumption to avoid the predictable tedium that would result. Perhaps overconsumption would have been a better term.

Sir_Humphrey

Generali wrote: »

Yup. Raising taxes or cutting spending would both achieve the same thing. I misunderstood your point.

The UK Government has too much debt IMO. That other countries have more doesn't mean that the UK is in a good position but that other countries are in worse positions. If people want the Government to tax more rather than cut spending then hey, that's democracy. I don't agree and think spending should fall but what do I know.

This is the political choice that is denied throught the 'centre ground' [sic] political mush that passes for party politics nowadays.

Generali

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

This is the political choice that is denied throught the 'centre ground' [sic] political mush that passes for party politics nowadays.

Politics was much more fun when there was always a risk that Labour would take us out of NATO!

All that Foot/Thatcher stuff was great. It's all too stage managed these days.

Lest we forget. The 1983 Labour Party Manefesto:

http://labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml

They would have curtailed BTL so popular with a lot of posters round here

Labour will ensure that tenants are fully protected. We will:

• Actively encourage the transfer of all property owned by absentee private landlords to the public or owner-occupied sectors, with local authorities setting the pace. This will not apply to owner-occupiers letting all or part of their home.
• Repeal the Tories' shorthold scheme and close other loopholes in security of tenure; and strengthen tenants' rights on deposits and harassment.
• Strengthen councils' powers to enforce repairs and improvements and the standards of management, particularly in multi-occupied properties; and launch a programme of action against property held empty without justification.

harryhound

We have had massive tax rises during the boom - what have we got to show for it?
Marginal improvements in health and education & perhaps some pensioners raised from poverty?

Sir_Humphrey

harryhound wrote: »

We have had massive tax rises during the boom - what have we got to show for it?
Marginal improvements in health and education & perhaps some pensioners raised from poverty?

We have had tax rises, but not massive. We are well behind most of Western Europe. My experience of the NHS in the 1990s was waiting 18 months for a procedure. A similar (minor) procedure taken a couple of years ago involved waiting a few weeks. I also remember having to share books in class at school in the 1990s, and having about one computer for every 30 pupils in the mid-1990s.

To Generali, I was not thinking of Foot's disastrous leadership of the Labour Party when I typed my last posting!

nickmason

Generali wrote: »

Politics was much more fun when there was always a risk that Labour would take us out of NATO!

All that Foot/Thatcher stuff was great. It's all too stage managed these days.

Lest we forget. The 1983 Labour Party Manefesto:

http://labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml

They would have curtailed BTL so popular with a lot of posters round here

This all reminds of the great Thatcher comment (you can read that as you like:p ) when asked what her greatest legacy was, and she replied, with a wink, "New Labour".

Sir_Humphrey

nickmason wrote: »

This all reminds of the great Thatcher comment (you can read that as you like:p ) when asked what her greatest legacy was, and she replied, with a wink, "New Labour".

The distressing similarity of New Labour to Thatcherites, such as neo-Liberal economics and pointless authoritarianism is one I often think about!

nickmason

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

The distressing similarity of New Labour to Thatcherites, such as neo-Liberal economics and pointless authoritarianism is one I often think about!

Come come, pointless authoritarianism is one of New Labour's distinguishing factors.

The Conservatives are the liberals now....

Generali

nickmason wrote: »

This all reminds of the great Thatcher comment (you can read that as you like:p ) when asked what her greatest legacy was, and she replied, with a wink, "New Labour".

My favourite:

If my critics saw me walking over the Thames they would say it was because I couldn't swim.

Wookster

nickmason wrote: »

Come come, pointless authoritarianism is one of New Labour's distinguishing factors.

Tony was never big on open debate.