Another Celebrity Chef in the Stew

fc123

Generali wrote: »

Thanks for the post - I find your writing fascinating.

The prize for catching someone money laundering is not spending 14 years in gaol and in addition not paying an unlimited fine. That's impressed on you strongly, yearly if you work for a bank regulated by the FSA.

Thanks....And I return the compliment as your explanations of basic economic theory have helped the whole process too. I don't take everything that life throws out so personally....just some things can go wrong but it wasn't because one was totally rubbish or useless. I can face my own errors now and learn from them, but I wouldn't be in business at all without taking a lot of creative risk off and on.

PN wrote something a while back that stuck in my head....something about ''being batted around like flotsam and jetson'' and getting on with life within the chaos, whilst not being aware of what was really going on. I think that was what she meant.


The poor bank lady was trying to do her job then? Wonder where she is now?

I don't want this to come over as Know All and it is deffo not personal to Alan M....just that he has shared his problems on the board.
As trends can dictate how businesses evolve and they are very much part of my job, I would say that Alan M's problem with Lloyds is just one problem that can arise.
Fashions change, interiors are a little slower but, one day, the fashion for worktops will change.
As a fashion business (always a bit ahead so we never make the serious £££...but pave the way STS) we have changed 4 times, massive change at the time. Turns everything upside down for a while.

If ones product is The Thing of the moment, one can clean up for a while, but it is unlikely to be that for ever and ever.

Have just gone through that 'change' process the past 8 months. If I hadn't, we'd be pretty f**** now.

I live the economic theory in practice ....and the theory isn't always correct as there are always those Taleb moments that throw everything up in the air.


Just to add, what we will have to deal with isn't as difficult as giving birth a couple of times and parenting toddlers (whilst trying to run a business at the same time) .....it'll be up there in the top 10 but the above is still No 1.;)

It is also quite handy that my product ideas comes out of my head though, it's executing them that is the tricky bit.

Alan_M_2

Change is a constant thing in any business. I've changed my product lines substantially over the last 12 months, mainly driven by exchange rates as much as demand.

Sometimes though, things are genuinely removed from your control, in my particualr case this is a lot of my regualr contractor customers folding or downsizing.

The difficulty now is knowing what on earth is going on and actually is it worth continuing with what is currently a viable business as it may not be viable in another 12 months if the economic outlook remains as it is.

I assume this is the decision that AWT faced with his business...He knew it had been viable, He knew it was still viable...but would it be that way in 6 or 12 months time with everything going on as it is? Who can honestly answer that question? And would you bet your house on it?

We're in a strange situation because so many mixed messages are being sent out via the media, the government and anyone that cares to comment.

Whilst I understand the fundamental reasons behind bailing the banks out (on the grounds that the alternative is likely worse) it's a difficult pill to swallow for the man that built a business be told "If you get it wrong, you lose everything", despite you having to bail out the very people that will be taking everything you own.

I popped down to my local high street (Horley) this week to pay money into the bank, the number of vacant shops is an indication of how bad things are, it really is a ghost town. It makes you wonder how far it will go and when it will stop.

I'm no longer completely in control of my business, the economy now governs what happens to it (of course I do what I can, cut overheads, trade as effeciently as possible) but in truth, no one is in control now.....we're all on a runaway train and we don't truly know where the tracks are going.

Would I gamble my house on my business right now? No, but equally I wouldn't gamble my house on many of the FTSE 100 companies either.....

Judging AWT for coming to the same conclusion is unreasonable.

fc123

Alan_M wrote: »

Change is a constant thing in any business. I've changed my product lines substantially over the last 12 months, mainly driven by exchange rates as much as demand.

Sometimes though, things are genuinely removed from your control, in my particualr case this is a lot of my regualr contractor customers folding or downsizing.

The difficulty now is knowing what on earth is going on and actually is it worth continuing with what is currently a viable business as it may not be viable in another 12 months of the economic outlook remains as it is.

---

I'm no longer completely in control of my business, the economy now governs what happens to it (of course I do what I can, cut overheads, trade as effeciently as possible) but in truth, no one is in control now.....we're all on a runaway train and we don't truly know where the tracks are going.

.

I feel the same.

Our new venture may be kicking now, but 12 months time? Who knows.

Apparently, building/construction has always been the riskiest industry, followed by mine, clothing manufacture/design. Looks like we both have a double whammy.;) I was told this recently by someone who deals with insolvency.

We've based our decisions on what is happening now.....and how it feels now. We also have local 'micro-economic factors' to consider too and they won't improve for a long while.

I believe that if we 'wait and see' we won't be able to trade it all through...it will all collapse in the end.

I have been churning this over for about 6 months but we have made the final decsion today (by coincidence this thread timed itself well) .
So going to be busy, busy following it through.

I won't know if it the right or wrong one for a few years, I guess, then I can add it to my Phd on Hindsight.

And can I just add, I know we shouldn't bare our soul on an internet forum...but it really helps reading about others...so thanks AlanM. I understand the granite business a tiny bit now.

fc123

zarazara wrote: »

what about his employees?they might loose their homes.

Unfortunately, business owners, though they feel for their staff (as when one employs, one is resposible for everyones mortgage/rent), can't not make difficult decisions based on the above.

I write from experience as I kept 7 people in work (in 2003) that I should have laid off over a period of time. To keep them in work (which I saw as my responsibility), I made the wrong decisions about the direction of the business and the jobs went in the end anyway....and I got left with working all hours to pay down the debt incurred.

I even took legal advice at the time and didn't take it on board....as I let emotion cloud my judgement.

Generali

fc123 wrote: »

Unfortunately, business owners, though they feel for their staff (as when one employs, one is resposible for everyones mortgage/rent), can't not make difficult decisions based on the above.

I write from experience as I kept 7 people in work (in 2003) that I should have laid off over a period of time. To keep them in work (which I saw as my responsibility), I made the wrong decisions about the direction of the business and the jobs went in the end anyway....and I got left with working all hours to pay down the debt incurred.

I even took legal advice at the time and didn't take it on board....as I let emotion cloud my judgement.

It's the difficult part of business. It's horrible having to make decisions that will lead to people losing their jobs but sometimes you have to do it to protect the rest of the business.

zarazara

all sad really, people justifying keeping a roof over their own heads but letting their employees go down. What happened to the captain going down with the sinking ship?

Thrugelmir

zarazara wrote: »

all sad really, people justifying keeping a roof over their own heads but letting their employees go down. What happened to the captain going down with the sinking ship?

The Captain of a sinking (sunk) business still has to deal with the wreckage, however painfull for the employess they can row away to get aboard another ship.

bubblesmoney

Alan_M wrote: »

All my funding is secured, and as a result of this thread I watched working lunch on Iplayer to see exactly what AWT said:-

Firstly he was a director of a Limited company AWT Ltd.

This Limited company owned and operated 6 restaurants all bought with profits from previous resuatrants as they'd grown. 5 of the 6 were running at a profit.

LloydsTSB had charges on these properties amounting to in excess of £400,000.

AWT Ltd outstanding borrowing was £250,000, they wanted to extend a further £200,000 to allow the 6 units to continue trading.

Why do they want or need more security? Why do they require any directors gaurantees, therefore negating the whole reason for a Ltd company?

The situation I'm in is the same, LloydsTSB have secured all the borrowing my Ltd company has on property, they have in the region 140% of our facilities covered....then two weeks ago they told us they required more security, a debenture on the company and personal garuantees for us to continue our existing position, they wanted 200% security on our lending...If we were not prepared to offer this then our facilities are withdrawn....

Of course I'm not prepared to do this, no one in their right mind would agree to this.

What they are saying is, We want all our money back and we want it now, we don't care what it does to your business but we're not allowed to say that becasue the goverment have told us to lend more.....so we'll ask for ridiculous amounts of securitisation that no one in their right mind would accept....oh and you have a month.

Looking through most of the venemous replies on this thread I'd hazard a guess that many of you don't run businesses and don't have the first idea of why you'd set up a Ltd company to start with.

AWT Ltd is another example of a profitable viable business being destroyed by a bank in a state of panic.

i empathise with your position. i think the banks after getting burnt with residential mortgages/securities are now waking up to the reality of the property ponzi scheme collapsing. quite a few websites detail how the corporate property and commercial property bubble is bursting as well. i think the banks are scared of 50% falls of the commercial property prices (security offered for credit facility) and hence trying to demand 200% security to cover their forcasted losses. i am just guessing. best of luck, hope you get the required credit facility.

i know what you are saying about granite. i can see the huge mark up of granite produced in india when it lands in the retail shops here. middlemen are making 1000% just like in everything else. same with garments etc as i know few people who run garment factories (paying market wages and not slave labour or kiddies etc, all adults, trade unionised etc) and have bought clothes directly from factories. i see the same clothes being sold here or elsewhere for 500-1000% markups.

EDIT:
some specialised factories in india allow people to buy there and they have facilities (reliable and fully insured) to ship furniture (carved in rose wood and teak wood and not sh1te particle board often found here, things like carved elephants etc for living rooms and even other furniture, they even have small decorative furniture made out of sandal wood etc which is horribly expensive) across the world. i came across such facilities because someone who was buying furniture there directly from manufacturers and shipping it to furnish their home. they were saving a packet even after shipping costs. and what do you know in a few years they sold that furniture second hand for more than they spent and were buying the second time and shipping it to usa when i met them.

Kev09

zarazara wrote: »

all sad really, people justifying keeping a roof over their own heads but letting their employees go down. What happened to the captain going down with the sinking ship?

No disrespect Zarazara, but that is asking a bit much if my business ran into trouble I couldn't really pay myself off and keep my employees on could I. For small companies this is the situation they face, many will re-hire again when business picks up or their cashflow improves, this is just the way it is painfully as it may be. I have only had to sack one person before trust me I did not enjoy it!!!!!

bo_drinker

Did any body else see A W T on This week last night. He has nothing good to say for the banks and lots of questions. "How did we get in to such a mess" I think we would all like the answer to that one. No doubt he will be back on our screens with some credit crunch recipes, no place for all that posh grub now, the stuff that looks like art and not like a meal.