Public-private wage divide gets 50% wider

Old_Slaphead

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

There are plenty of useful things people can do in the public sector for £15000. Indeed, the cost of having someone on the dole is not £4k - you haven't factored in the cost of crime and social unrest......

In public sector I haven't factored in how much light, heat, space and other facilities they'll use - nor how much time they'll waste creating needless work for other employees (ie personnel, training, meetings, people reading their unneeded reports), sickness etc etc.

macaque_2

Interesting post Linton. It is interesting to find myself debating with a member of HM government (I suspect). I will take your points in turn.

This really is nonsense. The economy isnt in its biggest shambles since the second world war. The man in the street is richer in real terms than he has ever been.

The UK is expected to suffer the worst slump of all advanced nations in the "deepest recession since the Second World War", world economists said today. The UK also has the worst level of personal debt and rapidly rising unemployment.

OK, there is a hopefully temporary down turn. Projections show perhaps a 3% decrease in GDP, which puts it in real terms back to what it was perhaps 3 or 4 years ago. To talk about shambles - do you remember interest rates at 15% and inflation at 24%? Those figures have been reached in the past 35 years.

At the end of 2008, more companies went bust than at any time since 1991. And we havn't even seen the worst of it yet. The interest rate theme has been a favourite Labour mantra for 10 years. For someone losing their job, 1% is as bad as 15%. And you have also forgotten that the governments current policies are storing up huge inflationary pressures. We will hit double figure interest rates within two to three years.

Banks have been bailed out by the government before - though with a lot less publicity. In the early 1980's if I remember correctly. The difference this time is that we have a global problem.

UK banks have never been bailed out on the scale that we seeing today. We also have the lowest interest rates for 300 years. That is destroying the incomes of old people.

The various mis-sellings have only been picked up and compensation awarded because of relatively recent government action. They have undoubtedly been happening for many years, probably ever since financial products were invented. It is only in the past 15 years or so that the very concept of financial product mis-selling was invented - previously it was a case of caveat emptor, no compensation for anything. In this area the man in the street is better protected than ever before.

The Labour property bubble has been the worst case of miss selling since the Dutch Tulip crisis. The government also has the least excuse for this mess.

If you are trying to make a political point perhaps you should check when most of the recent Pension and endowment mis-selling occurred and who was in power then. (clue - it was before 1997).

My criticism is political but not party political. My point is that the current government are not competant to administer the economy.

Really it would be more productive and enlightening if people could base their arguments on facts and knowledge of history rather than tabloid rantings.

We got into this mess because of spin and lies. We are not going to get out of it with more spin and lies.

helenjg

As a former working in the manufacturing sector I got bored of constant job cuts so retrained and went to work in Local Government.

6 years down the line and a masters degree in hand, I'm not earning as much as I would be in my old job but the pay cut is worth it because I believe in what I'm doing, wanted some job security and the flexitime suits my lifestyle.

People doing a similar job in the private sector would be earning 25-30% more than what I'm earning. I could have easily gone down that route if I was drawn to the money and ethics of the private sector but I'm not.

Yes we get a final salary pension scheme but at what cost? How much is a 25-30% lower wage worth especially since most private sector roles come with healthcare, gym membership, pension schemes?

I'd be interested for someone to work out if, over my working life, I actually gain more in terms of benefits... If I'm earning 10k less than my contemporaries in the private sector then multiply that by 35, that's quite a lot and don't forget that they have other benefits on top.

Also consider why teachers get paid what they do. Not so many years ago there was a chronic shortage of teachers because people realised that the old salaries wern't worth the work they were doing so left the profession. They then upped the salaries and teachers re now getting lambasted for earning too much. You should consider what you want - poor quality teachers or a profession with a salary that attracts the best?

I do appreciate that in these hard times its easier to go on a witch hunt than to put thought into why things are like they are but it really doesn't help anybody does it?

Vibrant

Helenjg:

I would be interested to learn what sector of manufacturing you were in, to get benefits like healthcare, gym membership and pension schemes and 25-30% more money. It definitely isn't the norm (certainly in my area).

I used to manage a medium size factory and we had none of those benefits. A few of the larger firms I knew had some benefits and one I know of, had much better benefits than those you state. But even that one has had to cut back and close its pension scheme to newcomers.

Nowadays I work as a self employed gardener, a job I greatly enjoy. I have a wide variety of customers, but the majority work for, or have retired from, public service. They seem to be considerably better off than private sector workers, especially the retired.

I would say the private sector workers, work harder, as my public sector customers seem to have an enormous amount of time off. And the public sector pensions are partly funded from taxes, which only the richest private companies can hope to compete with.
The advantage of working in the private sector seems to be that there is less pointless trivia and meetings to deal with.

Personally, I wish I'd worked for the council parks department, for the good pension. But alas, we only figure out these things when its too late, lol.

HenryWeston

This thread is more than enough evidence that public sector workers do sod all most days.

Old_Slaphead

Vibrant wrote: »

Helenjg:

I would be interested to learn what sector of manufacturing you were in, to get benefits like healthcare, gym membership and pension schemes and 25-30% more money. It definitely isn't the norm (certainly in my area).

I used to manage a medium size factory and we had none of those benefits. A few of the larger firms I knew had some benefits and one I know of, had much better benefits than those you state. But even that one has had to cut back and close its pension scheme to newcomers.

I would say the private sector workers, work harder, as my public sector customers seem to have an enormous amount of time off. And the public sector pensions are partly funded from taxes, which only the richest private companies can hope to compete with.
The advantage of working in the private sector seems to be that there is less pointless trivia and meetings to deal with.

I can concur with your views Vibrant.

helenjg: your lower wage is nearly offset by the 20% that your public sector employer (ie taxpayer) contributes to your pension. As stated, you also have added benefits like job security, flexitime, extra holidays - how much is that lot worth ?

With over 40 year experience in manufacturing I have yet to come across any company offering free gym membership, health benefits (a few do but for senior managers only - and that's to get them back to work quicker!) or FS pensions (ok a few did but not anymore). FWIW council employees get reduced membership subscription at my local council gym !!

Many private sector workers are on minimum wage...I don't think (m)any public sector staff are.

Not all public sector jobs are lower paid either. My partner works in LG and she freely abmits that her gross salary (even ignoring other benefits) is higher than she could get outside.

helenjg

Vibrant wrote: »

Helenjg:

I would be interested to learn what sector of manufacturing you were in, to get benefits like healthcare, gym membership and pension schemes and 25-30% more money. It definitely isn't the norm (certainly in my area).

Personally, I wish I'd worked for the council parks department, for the good pension. But alas, we only figure out these things when its too late, lol.

I worked in manufacturing before I retrained. after that I went into the private sector working for a firm of surveyors. Like I said, I've only just got to a stage where I'm earning what I would have been if I'd have stayed in manufacturing.

Out of interest, do you think that council solicitors get paid as much as those in the private sector? Do you think that surveyors in the council get anywhere near as much? Do you think planning officers get paid more? I think that you're missing the trade off that council employees make.

I note that you both work/ed in the private sector so I'm just wondering whether or not you have a balanced view on these things. Trust me, I've worked in both sectors so have a better idea than the one sidedview based on largely anecdotal evidence.

treliac

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

My partner works in LG and she freely abmits that her gross salary (even ignoring other benefits) is higher than she could get outside.

Doesn't she get peeved that you're constantly biting the hand that feeds her? Presumably her future's fairly safe. Can't believe how you keep going on. You both ought to be grateful.

Cannon_Fodder

helenjg wrote: »

...largely anecdotal evidence.

How lucky it is that the stats mentioned in the opening post are here to avoid any accidental bias from anecdotal experiences...

Old_Slaphead

treliac wrote: »

Doesn't she get peeved that you're constantly biting the hand that feeds her? Presumably her future's fairly safe. Can't believe how you keep going on. You both ought to be grateful.

Maybe it's dementia setting in but your first sentence doesn't make sense.

Her future appears to be safe - so's mine (in the short term anyway). I work very, very hard for several small manufacting businesses. Given nil support from this Government we're still making a profit and have a fullish order book. One of a dying breed probably.