problems with a member of staff

Zazen999

Ok.

As Management myself, if another manager was upsetting my team - I'd be taking the feedback and sitting down with the person, and my boss, to go through the problem and come up with a resolution. They're MY team and I am responsible for their environment.

It is a shame that your manager is unable to do this.

maninthestreet

frankie1star wrote: »

there have been five incidences recently we could all mention, but havent documented them....our view is we have given him the opportunity to take it from our manager (senior) and after that he has blown his chances...but on the other hand he may be oblivious to what he is doing..and sitting round the table might make him aware...(not??)

So you need to start documenting any new incidents - otherwise, this person will simply deny there is any problem when you are unable to produce any incident details.

frankie1star

Zazen - as a manager what would you make of our LM's approach, would you say it's supportive? or deviscive?

We definitely, have an independant witness to one of the incidents.

janey_uk

maninthestreet wrote: »

You need to keep a diary of this person's behaviour, making notes of the nature of the inappropriate behaviour, and the date and time it occurred. This will be needed if you make a formal complaint. It's quite possible that some of this person's behaviour may be bordering on what your employer would consider 'gross misconduct'.

Absolutely right about keeping a diary.
However, if you want to resolve the issue fairly for all sides you should make a formal grievance. As should your colleagues, individually. Why? Because even though you might not like the guy he has a right to a hearing and to put his views across, just as you do. If someone else at work disliked you and criticised you to your manager (i.e. wanted action taken) but did not want you to have a process you would be denied the formal right to reply.

You should do it individually as if each person feels that strongly that they have a case to report the guy to their manager, they should be able and prepared to put it in writing. If the person is that bad the process will find it out. A common problem with collective informal complaints rather than individual grievances is that if you ask individuals to cite their personal reasons for complaining they are frequently bolstered by a team dislike for an individual; hey may in fact have little personally that warrants a grievance; ergo informal complaints can become very unfair on the accused individual.

Sorry if that's not the reply you are looking for, but it is likely the response your HR department will give.

Zazen999

frankie1star wrote: »

Zazen - as a manager what would you make of our LM's approach, would you say it's supportive? or deviscive?

We definitely, have an independant witness to one of the incidents.

It appears that your LM would be in need of management training called 'dealing with difficult people'. I wouldn't like to call it anything specifically, apart from the inability to respond to employee needs and address external issues [which this is].

[Ask her whether if one of her kids had a problem with their uncle, would she make the kid face the uncle down or tell the kids that she would deal with it and talk to the uncle herself? - a tenuous example but that's what line management is about - developing your staff and making sure they have a safe working environment so that they can do the job that they are there to do]

ETA: by making you face down the other manager, it is making it formal - she should try to resolve this without formal grievance in the first instance under her duty of care to her staff.

janey_uk

frankie1star wrote: »

Zazen - as a manager what would you make of our LM's approach, would you say it's supportive? or deviscive?

We definitely, have an independant witness to one of the incidents.

While a lot of managers will try diplomacy before formal routes it can put them in a bit of a difficult situation because you have asked them to deal with a problem outside of the agreed processes for such situations and in a way which depends entirely on how they handle it. If they are comfortable trying to do this then that's a bonus, but they are not obliged to follow something through if it is informal.

For example, if this all blows up and there is no choice but to go formal and your team still don't want to, the manager ends up looking like an interfering !!!! who has acted outside of policy.

Equally, your manager may have found something out about the other manager which isn't public knowledge and means following it up is no longer appropriate? Maybe the person is leaving anyway

frankie1star

thank you Janey, its not so much not putting it writing, there have been many incidences which warranted his behaviour being reprimanded, but we chose to ignore it. On the latest occasions, he has been so out of order, but like I said we dont want to possibly ruin his life..but we will be prepared to formalise it if he doesnt change....he bullies all and sundry

janey_uk

frankie1star wrote: »

thank you Janey, its not so much not putting it writing, there have been many incidences which warranted his behaviour being reprimanded, but we chose to ignore it. On the latest occasions, he has been so out of order, but like I said we dont want to possibly ruin his life..but we will be prepared to formalise it if he doesnt change....he bullies all and sundry

One grievance doesn't ruin someone's life... if it is the first time it has happened (unless it is gross misconduct) the response of his manager would need to be reasonable.

Often grievances get resolved without shifting to a disciplinary procedure - e.g. someone makes a formal apology, gets some training and you all get on with your lives. If it's not the first time or was GM then don't sweat it.

Hope it's not stressing you out too much!

boydE

You cannot just refuse to work with someone, this needs to be resolved fast, your manager should talk to his boss and it should be sorted.

frankie1star

not stressed by this issue, just want it dealt with promptly and efficiently. My refusal to work with the guy has been shortlived, possibly lasted 1 week, prior to the meeting with LM. I do not bear grudges, but I dont want to be treated like it again, and I believe it goes for my colleagues.
It has been suggested that he honestly doesnt know how he upsets people, and maybe the way forward is to get round the table and tell him.