Frozen food safety- misconceptions

A._Badger

A lot of the silliness about this stems from our rampant 'health and safety' obsessives, who have insisted on all sorts of erroneous information appearing on food packaging.

For example, fresh meat sold by supermarkets will often say 'if freezing, use within one month', which is nonsense.

I have recently begun buying pork from a local specialist smallholder who has had to jump through many 'h&s' hoops before being allowed to butcher and sell his own meat. Perfectly fresh joints of pork, which he has frozen just a few days before, have 'use by' dates just two or three month away. He does it, he says, because the health gestapo told him to.

thriftlady_2

A._Badger wrote: »

A lot of the silliness about this stems from our rampant 'health and safety' obsessives, who have insisted on all sorts of erroneous information appearing on food packaging.

.

I fear you are right Badger. We live in a society in which we are not trusted to make our own decisions about what is good for us.

Use by dates are good example of this. While they are useful (I like to know how long my milk is going to last before it goes off) they have rendered us incapable of making our own decisions about when food is fit to eat.

I remember a question a while back on this board asking whether it was safe to eat a swede that had gone past its use by date:rolleyes: Never mind why such a thing as a swede, a traditional winter veg grown for its storing qualities, should be in a packet in the first place , why was the owner of the swede unable to make up their own mind whether it was fit to eat or not?

Freedom from 'the tyranny of use by dates' (as Penelope Penguin has it;) ) is just one of the reasons I shop at a butcher, fishmonger, farm shop and why I make my own bread, yogurt and preserves.

Ben84

thriftlady wrote: »

If you read my original post I do say that your freezer should be working correctly, and that while it is possible to freeze everything (including milk:rolleyes: ) it is not always desirable. So thank you for making my point again.

My main point is that food cannot become poisonous whilst in the freezer as many people seem to think.

Why would you want to keep food in the freezer forever? Use your common sense and make a list of what you put in, package, label and date it properly and cross it off your list when you use it up.It isn't rocket science. Use your freezer as a storecupboard not a museum.

I have read your original post, and I thinks it relevant that while frozen food won't grow bacteria, it can significantly denature when it gets near the use by date. Even things that freeze well for potentially a long time can become unpleasant to eat when they get too old.

Ben84

I don't see what's wrong with use by dates. You don't have to follow them. It's just that I quite like use by dates on things. I see them as a retailer's guarantee of how long something will keep and be safe and pleasant to eat when stored as suggested. When I'm shopping I want to know if the items I'm buying today will still be good to serve for lunch on Wednesday, or the chocolates in the sale will still be in good condition at Christmas, for example.

Use by dates shouldn't be replacing our ability to judge food for ourselves, but it helps to have a good estimate of their potential life. It makes it easier to choose what to buy and helps keep track of when to ideally eat it by. It makes sense if retailers guarantee their food to try and consume it within that time so that you can get your money back if it's not good.

Making it law for retailers to guarantee their food items was good news for consumers in many ways, I would not like to return to the days before then. I don't feel there's any tyranny to use by dates, they're putting pressure on retailers to supply good food, not pressure on us.

Besides, no use by dates would probably mean no reduced bin in the shop for things getting near their date!

geordie_joe

Ben84 wrote: »

I don't see what's wrong with use by dates. You don't have to follow them. It's just that I quite like use by dates on things. I see them as a retailer's guarantee of how long something will keep and be safe and pleasant to eat when stored as suggested. When I'm shopping I want to know if the items I'm buying today will still be good to serve for lunch on Wednesday, or the chocolates in the sale will still be in good condition at Christmas, for example.

Use by dates shouldn't be replacing our ability to judge food for ourselves, but it helps to have a good estimate of their potential life. It makes it easier to choose what to buy and helps keep track of when to ideally eat it by. It makes sense if retailers guarantee their food to try and consume it within that time so that you can get your money back if it's not good.

Making it law for retailers to guarantee their food items was good news for consumers in many ways, I would not like to return to the days before then. I don't feel there's any tyranny to use by dates, they're putting pressure on retailers to supply good food, not pressure on us.

Besides, no use by dates would probably mean no reduced bin in the shop for things getting near their date!

Very good points.

I think there are two problems with use by dates.

Most people seem to think the use by date is an order. If it says use by 14 March they think at midnight on 14 March something will happen to the product and it will become toxic.

Manufacturers seem to use this to sell us more stuff. They set the dates far too low so we will either use the items or throw them away and thus buy more.

Tonight I froze a swede and a bag of carrots. The carrots were from the market and have been in my fridge several weeks. The turnip was from Morrisons and had a sticker on says "Two for the price of one" It also had a label saying "Display until 3 Jan 09 use by 4 Jan 09.

There was nothing wrong with them, and I got a bargain with the Swede, but how many people would have thrown it out weeks ago?

I think being money saving and OS means taking advantage of the tricks producers/supermarkets use to fool other people.

rosieben

I used to buy swedes by the sack from a local farm (as well as potatoes, onions, anything else that was available) and if stored in the right conditions veg will keep for months. The worst thing you can do to a fresh vegetable is to wrap it in plastic as the supermarkets love to do :rolleyes: I use my own judgement and the sight and sniff tests, float test for eggs, etc. My dsis will throw things out absolutely by the date, and I gave up trying to get her to see how illogical it is.

back on topic, I remember years ago (70's) reading that you could refreeze bread and I've done that many times. Interesting to see the refreezing article, thanks for the link Charis.

thriftlady_2

rosieben wrote: »

I remember years ago (70's) reading that you could refreeze bread and I've done that many times. Interesting to see the refreezing article, thanks for the link Charis.

I do this all the time. I freeze the crusts and crumbs from previously frozen hm bread.

I also refreeze previously frozen stock in the form of soup.

Penelope_Penguin

thriftlady wrote: »

I do this all the time. I freeze the crusts and crumbs from previously frozen hm bread.

I also refreeze previously frozen stock in the form of soup.

Is this confession time I've defrosted HM pasta sauce, not used it all, then refrozen the rest :eek: But then, I'm a grown-up and able to make my own decisions :rolleyes: We are one of the healthiest families I know, and my children have only had one period off school in the last 6 years, and that was each for tionsilitis

thriftlady wrote:

Freedom from 'the tyranny of use by dates' (as Penelope Penguin has it;) ) is just one of the reasons I shop at a butcher, fishmonger, farm shop and why I make my own bread, yogurt and preserves.

I'm still waiting for the eggs to appear from my chooks with a date stamp :rotfl:

Penny. x

seraphina

I do think it's a shame that people can't make intelligent decisions about food expiry. I freeze anything and everything - I even have a stash of frozen packed lunches that I can take out the night before and eat the next day for lunch.

The first thing I will do when I have a bigger house is invest in a nice big chest freezer.

Incidently, it is worth pointing out that if you defrost things in a fridge you can usually refreeze them again - I do this with tomato sauce we use for pizza bases - defrost pot, take out amount of sauce needed, and refreeze the big pot. The USDA page already linked to confirms I'm not a weirdo;)

nesssie1702

Ben84 wrote: »

I have read your original post, and I thinks it relevant that while frozen food won't grow bacteria, it can significantly denature when it gets near the use by date. Even things that freeze well for potentially a long time can become unpleasant to eat when they get too old.

It's highly unlikely that frozen food will have a "Use by" Date - it's much more likely to have a Best Before date.

If things become unpleasant to eat because they've been in the freezer for too long, that's a food quality issue and not a food safety one.

Thriftlady's point of using the freezer as an extra cupboard (albeit a very cold one!) and not a museum is a very valid one. Stock rotation will ensure that you shouldn't have any museum pieces lurking at the bottom of the freezer.