Interview under caution, will it go further?

redmel1621

Hi All

I am wondering if anyone can advise, or reassure me please.
I will try to lay out our situation briefly first and then explain what has happened....although I am not entirely clear about what has happened

We moved back into our current area 3yrs ago, since we moved back dh has been unemployed, but a p/t student. I have been working p/t and a p/t student. We received, ctc,wtc,hb,ctb. Up until October 2008, which is when dh became a fulltime student.

In June 2007 we moved house (private rented) and told the council about the move, we provided our new tenancy agreement and our new tax credit award notice, which we had reeived in May. In June 2007 we got our new HB & CTB award notice...all seemed ok.
Then in May 2008 we provided our new tax credit award notice again (well i'm pretty sure we did) and again in June 2008 we got another letter from the council stating revised benefit amount...again all seemed ok.
In Oct 2008 we went in and informed them of our change of circumstances, which would mean that we would definitely be entitled to no CTB and very little or no HB....we knew all of this as we had checked it all out before dh applied to uni, as we wanted to make sure we could afford for him to go!!

In the months of Oct and Nov 08 we received lots of letters, with the amounts of entitlement changing numerous times. It turned out we had been overpaid HB and CTB since April 2007...they claimed they didn't have any updated tax credit or wage information from us during that time.....I told them on the phone that we had provided it, they didn't seem to make a big deal about it and just put us on a repayment plan in Nov 08 which we are still on. We now pay our whole council tax ourselves, and most of our rent too....

Anyway fast forward to wednesday just gone...and we get a nasty letter through the door effectively calling us criminals and asking us to attend an interview under caution. Dh phoned up and we went into the interview the same day (wed) I maintained that we had definitely given them the tc award notice for 2007-2008...and that I am almost sure I gave them the one for 2008-2009 (although we had a hell of a lot going on then so may be mistaken, but would never intentionally withhold any info)....I don't really understand how they say my wage info was incorrect for that time, because I do set 16hrs each week so my wage doesn't really change, unless I cover a shift if someone is sick...but my manager knows my situation and as I have to declare all extra earnings to both council and tax credits and have everything revised, it is easier for me to not do extra hours...so I am still confused about that, but back in Nov I trusted them and accepted that they had overpaid us and am willing to pay back any money owed.

At the end of the interview, he said it now gets sent to an independant panel and they decide whether they want to take us to court for fraud, but it will take 6wks until we find out about this.......Now as I have to spend the next 6wks worrying what the outcome of this is going to be, instead of looking forward to my new baby which is due in 6wks...I am utterly devestated by the whole affair. I have been in tears about it numerous times yesterday and today, I can barely eat either...none of which is going to be good for the baby.

Do you think they have a case? and do you think I have grounds to hurry their decision, given my situation? Should I have sought legal advice before going in? And should I seek legal advice now, or wait for their reply?

Sorry it turned out so looong:o

Mel x

rosered1963

Mel.

First, take a deep breath. You're pregnant dear! Secondly, yes, it would have been a good idea to take advice from Citizens' Advice before the interview so you should do it asap. Citizens' Advice are used to handling such cases.

An interview under caution is not to be taken lightly. It is like the police interviewing you under caution. Who interviewed you under caution? DWP or the council? Do they say you owe them money and if so, what benefit has been overpaid and how much? If there is an overpayment of benefit, my advice to you is to see CAB straight away, and I would also suggest you offer to repay the overpaid benefit in installments. This may prevent them from taking you to court.

best wishes.

redmel1621

It was an officer from the council benefits section. They told me back in Oct/Nov time that there was an overpayment I think it was around £1000 and I have been paying it back since then at a rate of £10pw, they have been taking it directly from the small amount of benefit we still receive. After the repayment we receive just over £15 a fortnight Hb from them.

I thought we should really have sought legal advice first but dh was more concerned with getting it over and done with asap (as was I, really) I suppose hindsight is a great thing!!

I just wonder whether seeing cab is worthwhile as the outcome may simply be to carry on paying back what we owe....If it comes back that they are taking us to court then I would seek legal advice...or am I best to be prepared?

Mel x

rosered1963

Hi Mel - Ok - I'm with you now.

You have an existing arrangement with the Council to pay back an accidental overpayment - you are still having this deducted from your HB. Now, they must have found a further overpayment, and instead of discussing it with you informally, they have decided to interview you under caution. No doubt some specific expert advice will follow from the people on these forums. Here is mine:

Get your hands on every bit of paperwork you can relevant to all benefits since June 1997. Get all your payslips together for that period. Put it in a file, and organise it if you can. See Citizens' advice now, or see if your partner can. They will take it on for you. Meanwhile, please don't worry as you and your baby's health are the main thing here. For future reference, try to keep all your papers in scupulous order. Make notes of any telephone calls or interviews you have with any officer about any benefit so that if something happens, you have all your paperwork in order and records of everything. Best wishes

redmel1621

thanks rose - this is the silly thing they haven't found another overpayment, he said it is all to do with the same ones. My main mistake was that I didn't check all the letters properly, to make sure they had used correct figures...but then again, I just trusted that they had done their job properly!!

Unfortunately I also chuck letters away after about a year to two years so have very little relating to that period!!!

I will phone CAB on monday and try to get an appt with them. We do have an appt to see our local mp but that is 3wks away, and I doubt he can do very much for us anyway!! That appt was set up by dh and his mum??

Mel x

rosered1963

Hi Mel - sorry to hear that - what a nightmare for you at the moment.

I really wouldn't worry though, as you haven't been deliberately dishonest. It seems like a big mix up of all different benefits causing another overpayment to occur. Best of luck to you. For future reference, I would advise you to keep all benefits paperwork for at least 3 years (even if you come off that benefit). If you continue on benefit, keep all papers from day one. That way, you can always have proof. I would still go to the CAB now if I were you.

R

real1314

Ok,

2 things, firstly to rosered, how can you be so sure that the OP doesn't need to worry about this without any knowldge of the case? I think that whilst reassurance might be nice, it might be inappropriate. It might well not go away.

OP, have you established exactly what has caused the overpayment? If you have only ever worked 16 hours a week, and your wage has not increased, then that would rule out wage increases - is this the case?

As for tax credits, you say you gave them a new award notice in May 07, but in many cases tax credits were revising awards later in the year than that after doing initial awards - could this be the problem?

Identify the actual income that caused the overpayment first, then you can start looking at how it occurred.

redmel1621

Hi real, In both years we had our new tax credit awards through in May. This was after phoning them and confirming p60 amounts etc....

I don't really understand how they come to find a big increase in my wages. There are three things I can think of. Firstly - I may have covered the odd extra shift here and there (but like I say It would have been very rare). Secondly - My wages went from fortnightly to monthly as my company changed the way they paid us, so there could have been some discrepancy in the way the council worked it out. Thirdly - I got a conversion loan of £210 when the change-over happened to last us through the month we would have had no wages. The council may well have counted this as additional income, even though it is seen to be coming out each subsequent month as conversion loan repayment!!! But the overpayment figure they came to me with was about £800 I still don't understand it.

They were apparently using figures from our 2006-2007 tax credit award notice for all calculations up to the point we informed them of dh going to Uni in Oct 08...This apparently over the space of the 2yrs caused an overpayment of about £800 too...

So they have pointed out 2 overpayments one due undeclared earnings, and one due to undeclared tax credit increase.....Even though I had provided them with updated details of tax credits. Wages I am not sure what I gave them as I said I didn't think I had really earned anything different.

Mel x

rosered1963

real1314 wrote: »

Ok,

2 things, firstly to rosered, how can you be so sure that the OP doesn't need to worry about this without any knowldge of the case? I think that whilst reassurance might be nice, it might be inappropriate. It might well not go away.

OP, have you established exactly what has caused the overpayment? If you have only ever worked 16 hours a week, and your wage has not increased, then that would rule out wage increases - is this the case?

As for tax credits, you say you gave them a new award notice in May 07, but in many cases tax credits were revising awards later in the year than that after doing initial awards - could this be the problem?

Identify the actual income that caused the overpayment first, then you can start looking at how it occurred.

Hi Real - Fair point. You are right. I have advised Mel to act - but her worrying personally won't help the situation. Prosecution used to be the absolute last resort Councils used to recover o/p HB. I'm sure if this is no longer the case, someone will put me straight.

real1314

OP

You should ask the council to provide you with copies of ALL the documents they received from you for the period concerned and the 12 months prior. You should also ask for a schedule of all payments made and all the assesments that were made to calculate the payments.
Then you need to go through them painstakingly, to check what you have declared and what figures the council have used. Pay particular attention to any tax credit notice from the prior year as they have a figure for the following year as a proposed rate - the council should have used this figure.

Also get full details of your wages from your employer and a statement about the "loan" and compare this to the figures the council have used.

Rosered is right that you shouldn't let this become a worry - what's done is done - you now just have to find a route to get throught his process and close it.

redmel1621

Thank You both for your advice.

I did wonder if they would supply me with copies of letters that they have sent me. I will ask them first thing Monday.

I will also be phoning CAB Monday morning too. I wasn't going to bother seeing anyone until I had a decision, but I think it may be best if I find out all my options, just in case it goes further. I only wish I'd had time to see CAB first before going into the interview, as I really regret going to it now.

Mel x