American Vias

Marty_J

alanrowell wrote: »

The US Embassy - like all embassies - is an extension of that country, so US laws do apply.

This is an oft-repeated myth. UK laws apply there, as it does in every foreign embassy in the UK.

Have a look here:

"Diplomatic and consular premises are not extraterritorial. The status of diplomatic and consular premises arises from the rules of law relating to immunity from the prescriptive and enforcement jurisdiction of the receiving state; the premises are not part of the territory of the sending state (the United States of America)."

If the police want to enter the embassy they can't unless given permission to do so

This is true. It doesn't mean US laws apply there.

Marty_J

dontdoit wrote: »

And you have just posted something which disproves your theory.:rotfl:

I agreed that the UK can't enter the US Embassy without permission. Under Article 31 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, a consulate's premises are inviolable.

But it doesn't then follow that the United State's laws apply there. Article 55 of the above Act states that "it is the duty of all persons enjoying such privileges and immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State."

If it were "foreign soil", there wouldn't be English Police officers guarding it.

I certainly didn't get my passport stamped when I was there a few weeks ago.

The US seems to believe that its embassies are "not extraterritorial" anyway.

Marty_J

dontdoit wrote: »

What you quoted stated the foreign embassy were immune from local laws, ok, that doesn't then follow that the United State's laws apply there, but they must follow some form of law.

I think this, from a US Consular officer, explains it better than I can:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070110055033AArqDLB

omelette451

loonygooner wrote: »

Yes, think I knew thatI could have blagged it but I am trying to be honest with it all and realise that it may cost me now. I did the shoplifting when my wife was going through post natal depression after the birth of our girls and have ben informed by a psychiatrist who assessed me after that it was a cry for help.
I know this won't help my case but I am not a dishonest person I believe, just been hit my personal circumstances and it seems that the whole family may suffer due to it

Honesty is always the best policy. From what you've said it seems you're repentant, and as long as you convince the officer there's little chance you'll do it again there's no reason for them not to give you a visa. Plenty of people in your position have gone on to have successful holidays, and getting a proper visa now removes a huge amount of stress and worry from your holiday planning. Remain upbeat and positive and you'll be fine.

FH_Brit

dontdoit wrote: »

Your information is inaccurate.

Whole party would NOT be arrested
They can NOT charge you for putting you in jail
They can NOT charge to send you back home. Airlines MUST cover this cost, and is part of the contract they have to be able to fly to the US.

This is covered under

US CODE, TITLE 8, CHAPTER 12 , SUBCHAPTER II , Part II, § 1187

(e) Carrier agreements (...........(A) to indemnify the United States against any costs for the transportation of the alien from the United States if the visitor is refused admission to the United States or remains in the United States unlawfully after the 90-day period described in subsection (a)(1)(A) of this section,

as I said "this is what I've heard" I did not say it was gospel, and NEVER said they woul;d arrest everyone in party - they will be refused entry into the USA, there's a difference.

Secondly they CAN and DO charge you for the jail stay overnight, (I'd give you the name and address of one of my customers that told me this, but that would not be right without their permission to do it, and their case was in the UK papers a few years ago. As you effectively lied when you filled in the application for entry they can charge you/convict you/imprision you , in those cases what would you do, pay for jail or go to court and spend {guess} months in jail?

I've also heard about the Australian case where the person being re-patriated asked to pay for the hotel down the road, for him and a police guard as it was cheaper than the jail cost!

FH_Brit

Marty_J wrote: »

That's not true at all. The US Embassy in London is not US soil, and UK laws apply there.

And I agree with dontdoit completely. The US Embassy's website is OK for very broad general information, but it contains a lot of inaccurate information and is all over the place.

What US law says and what the US Embassy's website says are often two very different things.

You are mistaken, ALL embassies in UK are considered foreign soil. That is why DPG (Diplomatic Protection Group [Met police]) officers are always OUTSIDE (on UK soil) an Embassy (or Ambassadors residence) as the country concerned have their own protection/security services inside. That is why inside the US Embassy the "guards and security" are allowed to carry weapons (not loaded but ammo nearby in "relax" security state & "loaded & ready" in heightened states).

FH_Brit

Marty_J wrote: »

I agreed that the UK can't enter the US Embassy without permission. Under Article 31 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, a consulate's premises are inviolable.

But it doesn't then follow that the United State's laws apply there. Article 55 of the above Act states that "it is the duty of all persons enjoying such privileges and immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State."

If it were "foreign soil", there wouldn't be English Police officers guarding it.

I certainly didn't get my passport stamped when I was there a few weeks ago.

The US seems to believe that its embassies are "not extraterritorial" anyway.

You tend to "split hairs" here.

As far as English Police guarding - see above.

You dont get your passport stamped when you go to France/Spain etc etc - don't mean it aint foreign!

AND above all - it's a reciprical arrangement under the Vienna Convention therefore UK embassies around the world are on "UK Soil"!

"Respecting the laws of receiving states" refers to what diplomats & staff do when outside the embassy and certainly US law applies inside the embassy(ies). In fact some diplomats and embassies often ignore the Viena Convention = a few years ago (and they may still do) The Times published a list of embassies that their staff failed to comply with UK law (effectively abusing diplomatic emunity agreements) in not paying for parking tickets, unpaid bills etc, and the figures run into thousands of events and hundreds of thousands of pounds owed.

FH_Brit

dontdoit wrote: »

You're even saying you heard from



I hear lots of things, earth being flat springs to mind, but like you say



You've now heard that its not the case.




Theres a possibility here you may have misunderstood the word charge, charge as in arrest, not take cash from you,

ARREST YOU, YOU not your whole party - perhaps I was not clear enough for you - I'll take up another 4 pages making it absolutelty clear!

FH_Brit

dontdoit - could I possibly make a comment without you putting it down? You are obviously the ONLY person here that knows everythiing and, god forbid, anyone like me knows anything else (despite working in the UK/US travel business) may give an opinion or just pass on what has been said to them - Geez try and be helpfull to OP rather than making it more confusing for them.

You know it is no sweat of my nose if the OP pays attention to me and listens to "oh just lie" or "you don't have to disclose" or the difference between being sentanced and "you must disclose any arrest" - well OP is taking some risk by listening to "armchair lawyers" in the UK who pretend to know US Federal and State Laws.

Good luck LoonyGooner! - bad luck last night (Man Utd)

FH_Brit

dontdoit wrote: »

Perfectly clear to me



Its still not true that the whole party will be refused entry to the US, however you may want to change the sentence structure.

Point taken "Teacher"!!!! - It is true however, if you are all on the same booking and/or from the same family and/or staying at the same accomodation.

and Visa/VWP or whatever - The Homeland Security Dept. (Formerly INS) can refuse entry to ANYONE - NO VISITOR has a right of entry = END OF STORY!