The Job Centre aka The Joke Shop.....

moggylover

jmcateer wrote: »

You and other Polish people get work because you are willing to work and work hard at a job.
There are jobs out there but many UK citizens feel the job is below them or too much hassle (like working unsociable hours r godforbid travelling to work for an hour) to work for little pay.

I think one needs to consider whether one could actually live on the earnings once the travel costs are taken out in some areas! For myself it would be more like 1.5 hours travelling over a 40 mile distance, both morning and night! Now, I would find that acceptable for a job that paid well and allowed me to pay my bills - it would hardly be worth it for minimum wage because more than half of that would dissapear in the transport costs, and it would not leave enough money for even rent per week. If you are only going to earn minimum wage you really do need to minimise every expense that will come from it because once you start running a car and then running it a distance it is really not going to allow you to survive for long.

Furthermore, unsociable hours are fine if you have transport available when you finish so for those dependant on public transport to travel long distances it will just not be possible to get home after! Should they take a taxi do you think? At 2.00 am that is likely to take the wages for the entire shift they have just worked;) . Maybe they should just grab a cardboard box around the corner from work and we can retreat into the dark ages of the Victorian era:rolleyes:

I have, in the past, been willing to travel 4 hours a day to and from work, but it was worth doing because it was enough money that even with the travelling costs I could live well, and it was more than I was going to earn locally (even after travelling costs). I doubt anyone would do that sort of travelling if it meant they were still not going to be able to put a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs: no matter how smug and holier than thou they may be when they are not in that situation;)

BTW, we live in a very rural area with absolutely useless public transport that comes mid morning or afternoon! Being so rural we have had a lot of Polish migrant workers coming in on some of the farms and being housed in multiple occupancies (and boy were some of them multiple) and earning minimum wage! Now, unlike their British counterparts, these people were actually transported to work each morning by their employers so all of their minimum wage was their own! Especially lucrative when the rent is shared between about 20 people who sleep there in shifts (and some of whom are claiming such benefits as WTC and CTC to top up that minimum wage as well) and the minimum wage alone is five times what they would get in their own Country, so that money earnt on their short terms contracts during the Summer is enough to live VERY comfortably for the entire year in their own Country due to the far lower cost of living there!

We do need to look at the ENTIRE situation before we throw brick-bats around! This recession is unprecedented and many of the smug and self-satisfied might well be eating their hats before it is resolved;)

IsoChick

dmg24 wrote: »

I see no reason why you should need a car. You choose to keep pets and livestock, nobody forces you to. As for a ninety minute journey to work? Yes, many people do that (and a great deal more).

If you are in debt, a car is a luxury, not an essential.

Yes, my OH does a 2 hour commute every day (in a company car). Sadly it's in totally the opposite direction to where I work.

But the problem with living in a rural area is that bus services are frequently late/early/don't turn up. Given that the 2 miles to walk to the bus stop is down a single track unlit country road, and for a lot of the year I'd be doing it in the dark, there is the safety aspect to consider as well.

Yes, we have animals, but we'd be in the same boat if we had children. The nearest pre-school is near my work and there are no schools within walking distance. If I was to work and have children, public transport would be useless in that case as well.

And, to be frank... I spend enough time at work as it is! The thought of having to add another 3 hours to my working day, most of it stood waiting for a bus at various stops, is not what I want to do.

I tried the public transport for a week when I started the job. I wasn't at work on time once during 5 days; or at home before 7pm. It's not like I work miles and miles away from where I live. If the council/local authorities did more to improve the transport system, then more people would use it.

movingforward2010

moggylover wrote: »

Furthermore, unsociable hours are fine if you have transport available when you finish so for those dependant on public transport to travel long distances it will just not be possible to get home after! Should they take a taxi do you think? At 2.00 am that is likely to take the wages for the entire shift they have just worked;) . Maybe they should just grab a cardboard box around the corner from work and we can retreat into the dark ages of the Victorian era:rolleyes:

I have, in the past, been willing to travel 4 hours a day to and from work, but it was worth doing because it was enough money that even with the travelling costs I could live well, and it was more than I was going to earn locally (even after travelling costs). I doubt anyone would do that sort of travelling if it meant they were still not going to be able to put a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs: no matter how smug and holier than thou they may be when they are not in that situation;)

BTW, we live in a very rural area with absolutely useless public transport that comes mid morning or afternoon! Being so rural we have had a lot of Polish migrant workers coming in on some of the farms and being housed in multiple occupancies (and boy were some of them multiple) and earning minimum wage! Now, unlike their British counterparts, these people were actually transported to work each morning by their employers so all of their minimum wage was their own! Especially lucrative when the rent is shared between about 20 people who sleep there in shifts (and some of whom are claiming such benefits as WTC and CTC to top up that minimum wage as well) and the minimum wage alone is five times what they would get in their own Country, so that money earnt on their short terms contracts during the Summer is enough to live VERY comfortably for the entire year in their own Country due to the far lower cost of living there!

We do need to look at the ENTIRE situation before we throw brick-bats around! This recession is unprecedented and many of the smug and self-satisfied might well be eating their hats before it is resolved;)

of course jobcentre staff wouldnt expect someone living in a rural area with no transport to get a job that finished at 2am. You are expected to travel up to an hour on public transport for work, the same goes for signing on, if you live further than this you are able to do postal signing. If this is explained at the jobcentre the staff are sympathetic to this.

we dont try to make things difficult, but if your single with no dependents , living in the town centre or reasonable distance , whats stopping someone taking a 2 -10 job at tesco for instance, just until something more suitable comes up

tgon

wxmlad wrote: »

some people think they can reject any job because they have a god given right to benefit for as long as they want.

I doubt the right is given by God - perhaps something less dramatic. Within the terms of my JSA agreement I've never seen this as a "benefit", just a lawful claim to my rights of entitlement based on the my past contribution to the tax man. "Benefit" has connotations of a gift and the JSA is certainly not that. :rolleyes:

I think the process itself can be improved, especially the software logic that front line duty bound Job Centre staff must use which inadvertently creates The Joke Shop stories.

dmg24

IsoChick wrote: »

Yes, my OH does a 2 hour commute every day (in a company car). Sadly it's in totally the opposite direction to where I work.

But the problem with living in a rural area is that bus services are frequently late/early/don't turn up. Given that the 2 miles to walk to the bus stop is down a single track unlit country road, and for a lot of the year I'd be doing it in the dark, there is the safety aspect to consider as well.

Yes, we have animals, but we'd be in the same boat if we had children. The nearest pre-school is near my work and there are no schools within walking distance. If I was to work and have children, public transport would be useless in that case as well.

And, to be frank... I spend enough time at work as it is! The thought of having to add another 3 hours to my working day, most of it stood waiting for a bus at various stops, is not what I want to do.

I tried the public transport for a week when I started the job. I wasn't at work on time once during 5 days; or at home before 7pm. It's not like I work miles and miles away from where I live. If the council/local authorities did more to improve the transport system, then more people would use it.

So really you are admitting that there is no need for you to have a car, just that you're lazy?

movingforward2010

tgon wrote: »

I doubt the right is given by God - perhaps something less dramatic. Within the terms of my JSA agreement I've never seen this as a "benefit", just a lawful claim to my rights of entitlement based on the my past contribution to the tax man. "Benefit" has connotations of a gift and the JSA is certainly not that. :rolleyes: for the first 6 months its based on your contributions, after 2 years its a P1ss take. We also get some people calling it their wages.

I think the process itself can be improved, especially the software logic that front line duty bound Job Centre staff must use which inadvertently creates The Joke Shop stories.

i think some people need to look for jobs themselves too

DCFC79

dmg24 wrote: »

So really you are admitting that there is no need for you to have a car, just that you're lazy?

but she/he needs the car for her work

moggylover

wxmlad wrote: »

of course jobcentre staff wouldnt expect someone living in a rural area with no transport to get a job that finished at 2am. You are expected to travel up to an hour on public transport for work, the same goes for signing on, if you live further than this you are able to do postal signing. If this is explained at the jobcentre the staff are sympathetic to this.

we dont try to make things difficult, but if your single with no dependents , living in the town centre or reasonable distance , whats stopping someone taking a 2 -10 job at tesco for instance, just until something more suitable comes up

Well, you might be reasonable about what you expect people to be able to do in the way of travelling: but many jobcentre staff are not - but it is nice to know that you are at least supposed to be:D

As to paragraph two: absolutely nothing and yes I do agree that people who will not do so should get not benefits - but I would have to add the proviso that there are some towns where I certainly would not like to be on the streets waiting for a bus at 10/10.30 if I had no-one with me:eek:

movingforward2010

moggylover wrote: »

As to paragraph two: absolutely nothing and yes I do agree that people who will not do so should get not benefits - but I would have to add the proviso that there are some towns where I certainly would not like to be on the streets waiting for a bus at 10/10.30 if I had no-one with me:eek:

i agree with you here, circumstances are different for everyone, but some people will sign for years and keep saying nothing is suitable, surely after 100's of jobs 1 most be a little suitable

IsoChick

dmg24 wrote: »

So really you are admitting that there is no need for you to have a car, just that you're lazy?

Sorry, how are you working that out?

Because I don't want to walk 2 miles to a bus stop before and after work?
Because I don't want to spend 3 hours every day commuting?

I'd love to be lazy! Sadly, running a small smallholding and having a full time job takes up all my time! Walking the dogs and dealing with all the animals in a morning means that I've often done 2 hours work before I get to my desk. In the spring/summer/autumn, there's also the crops to deal with, as well as the animals, before and after work.

The idea of us having the smallholding was that eventually I wouldn't have to go out to work, but would work at home. Unfortunately, foot and mouth, bird flu scares and a couple of years of bad weather, meaning bad harvests, mean that I have a full time job to enable us to survive.