Government to offer loans to buy cars

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

A common sense approach to problems instead of unthought, U-Turn begging, and downright wasteful policies.

You call people flag waving tory faithful but omit the fact that the labour keep using the tory policies with their own bit of spin on it.

So you would be very happy if the economy recovers in the next 15 months?

Graham_Devon

StevieJ wrote: »

So you would be very happy if the economy recovers in the next 15 months?

What words are you trying to put into my mouth? Can tell by the way you have asked the question

If your going to tell me I want high prices to continue if I say yes, I would be glad to see the market recover, then I don't want to know.

I would like to see the market recover, yes. But recover at a point where people can afford to live on a standard wage and people don't have to be propped up by tax credits, child credits, and the benefits system to be able to have a roof over their heads.

Wookster

StevieJ wrote: »

The govt is hopefully staying arms length from these banks

That would be these passionate cries of LEND LEND LEND emanating from Whitehall & Downing Street would it?

Wookster

StevieJ wrote: »

So you would be very happy if the economy recovers in the next 15 months?

And what exactly do you mean by recovery?

Is that more of the last 10 years? (i.e. growth fueled by increased personal & corporate debt rather than actually producing things)

Or is it more affordable house prices, higher savings ratios, more efficient & educated workforce, less people on benefits, more production & significantly higher exports and less imports as we are producing more ourselves.

Sir_Humphrey

Wookster wrote: »

And what exactly do you mean by recovery?.

Wookster wrote: »

Is that more of the last 10 years? (i.e. growth fueled by increased personal & corporate debt rather than actually producing things)?

I have already explained how credit fuels investment and growth. The problem over the last ten years was that it was allowed to get out of control, and was targetted at non-productive sectors (i.e housing).

Wookster wrote: »

Or is it more affordable house prices.

That is going to be the case whatever the govt does.

Wookster wrote: »

higher savings ratios.

To increase saving, you need people to be in work. Right now, that means fiscal stimuli to boost employment.

Wookster wrote: »

more efficient; educated workforce.

To increase efficiency, you need to invest, which involves credit. To educate them better, you need good education, which means public sector spending being kept up.

Wookster wrote: »

less people on benefits, more production

See comment above on fiscal stimulus.

Wookster wrote: »

significantly higher exports and less imports as we are producing more ourselves.

Which means protecting what industry we do have e.g the car industry. The cost of doing this is a higher national debt, with future higher taxes. People need to decide if that is a price worth paying for a functioning economy.

StevieJ

Wookster wrote: »

And what exactly do you mean by recovery?

Is that more of the last 10 years? (i.e. growth fueled by increased personal & corporate debt rather than actually producing things)

Or is it more affordable house prices, higher savings ratios, more efficient & educated workforce, less people on benefits, more production & significantly higher exports and less imports as we are producing more ourselves.

Let us start with a positive GDP and people moving back into jobs again :T

Graham_Devon

StevieJ wrote: »

Let us start with a positive GDP and people moving back into jobs again :T

Ok, lets go with that.

As you mentioned "flag waving tories" I would assume you are a labour supporter?

Therefore, as you directed a question at me, can I direct one at you? Infact two?

- What is Gordon and the labour party doing right now, that you can say is steering us in the direction your clapping away about?

- What has Gordon / Labour done in the past that's steered us here? It's just Gordon has been at the helm of the countires finances now for over 10 years, and GDP WAS ok, but it's not now.....and it's him that was at the helm. So can you give me anything labour has done to steer us in this direction? Just from where I'm sitting, HE and his party are the ones that have pushed us this way. It's easy to forget who's been in power for the last decade when looking to someone to get us out of the biggest mess most in this country have ever seen.

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Ok, lets go with that.

As you mentioned "flag waving tories" I would assume you are a labour supporter?

Therefore, as you directed a question at me, can I direct one at you? Infact two?

- What is Gordon and the labour party doing right now, that you can say is steering us in the direction your clapping away about?

- What has Gordon / Labour done in the past that's steered us here? It's just Gordon has been at the helm of the countires finances now for over 10 years, and GDP WAS ok, but it's not now.....and it's him that was at the helm. So can you give me anything labour has done to steer us in this direction? Just from where I'm sitting, HE and his party are the ones that have pushed us this way. It's easy to forget who's been in power for the last decade when looking to someone to get us out of the biggest mess most in this country have ever seen.

I am not a Labour voter but I am getting sick and tired of the a Tory mob blaming Brown for US / UK banks ineptitude, especially when the effects are crushing the whole world. I find it even more galling when your own party comes out with statements like this.

'We see no need to continue to regulate the provision of mortgage finance, as it is the lending institutions rather than the client taking the risk.'

WTF?_2

Generali wrote: »

It's true that it is theoretically possible for the Government to make a profit on this. Governments don't have a stellar record for profiting from turnaround situations though!

The biggest worry for me is the open cheque that the Government has written. The liabilities that the UK banks have run into many trillions. Of course the likelihood of total loss is vanishingly small, it just won't happen. The costs could well cause the UK Government to fail to meet other commitments.

Indeed - If bank shares were such a good bet they wouldn't be showing the sort of market performance that they have been. Nationalisation wouldn't have even been in the frame, private capital would be jumping all over them to grab a share of the upside.

Many of the banks are outright insolvent, kept afloat only by 'emergency liquidity measures' which are now into the order of hundreds of billions of quid's worth of loans from the BoE.

I believe the latest plan on the table is to relax the capital adequacy requirements so the banks can loan more. Hmmm, we have these safeguards in place which are now in danger of being breached without massive govt. bailouts and the solution is to degrade the safeguards and get the banks lending money in an increasingly tough environment. Yep, that'll help things.

Wookster

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

I have already explained how credit fuels investment and growth. The problem over the last ten years was that it was allowed to get out of control, and was targetted at non-productive sectors (i.e housing).That is going to be the case whatever the govt does.To increase saving, you need people to be in work. Right now, that means fiscal stimuli to boost employment.To increase efficiency, you need to invest, which involves credit. To educate them better, you need good education, which means public sector spending being kept up.See comment above on fiscal stimulus.Which means protecting what industry we do have e.g the car industry. The cost of doing this is a higher national debt, with future higher taxes. People need to decide if that is a price worth paying for a functioning economy.

The essence of what you're proposing is the government borrowing money, transferring it to individuals and companies and then recouping it in a few years time with higher taxes.

It is simply recycling of money.

Where does growth come from? Who produces goods of value?

And you are still not seeing the lunacy with trying to borrow your way out of debt.