Benefits and hidden assets

spankygoodtime

I have have just signed on for housing benefits as my landlord has raised my rent. As I have a low income I investigated on MSE and discovered that I am entitled to help - and should have been claiming before.

I sent off all the information asked for and on Saturday received a letter asking for more information about a savings account I have. I had forgotten to include a statement but the benefits officer could see that from my bank account that I had been moving money into it from this account - this had been done to pay off my debts!

My claim was being held up because they were waiting for this information so I've just dropped it into the local housing office to be copied. I was also warned by a member of staff that if I did not declare savings I would get done for it, a bit steep for a first claim where I had simply forgotten to include something - NOT commit fraud. (I'm thinking of complaining about that but that's not why I'm posting.)

Anyway I was informed that the council have "sophisticated tracking software" which can sniff out undeclared saving accounts from bank and building society databases and not to try and hide savings. I have read this claim lots of times before, but only paid attention recently when my neighbour got caught hiding assets and his case was reported locally.

So how secure are bank and building society databases if this claim is true? Can benefits officers really sniff out undeclared bank and savings accounts using tracking software or is this something they want to convince us of to prevent fraud? I can understand them being able to find an ISA which you have to give your NI no to take out, or savings such as premium bonds but not accounts with other banks and building societies. They all say their databases are secure.

Personally I think that the only way that an undeclared bank or saving account can be uncovered is if someone tells the local council that someone else is cheating. The claim made in the local rag was that benefits officers had found my neighbour's account through tracking software but I know this is not true. What happened was that this neighbour was anti-social and a nuisance and someone else (he admitted it to me) in the house who was annoyed by his loud music and noise saw a bank statement come, opened it and sent the statement to the council anonymously. Deplorable behaviour of course although it has led to the house being a nice place to live now that this man has "gone away"!

So this "tracking software" then... true or false!

hippy-chicy

' My claim was being held up because they were waiting for this information so I've just dropped it into the local housing office to be copied. I was also warned by a member of staff that if I did not declare savings I would get done for it, a bit steep for a first claim where I had simply forgotten to include something - NOT commit fraud. (I'm thinking of complaining about that but that's not why I'm posting.)'

You can't really expect them to assess your entitlement when information is missing, how does the assessor dealing with your claim know that you had forgotten to include it on your application form?'. You may have made a simple mistake but there are many who deliberately miss information from their application. The staff know nothing about you - i'm sorry but you can't complain about them doing their job. They have a duty to claimants to ensure that they received the maximum benefit they are entitled to and reduce hardship , but they also have a duty to the tax payer to ensure that fraud and error do not enter the system.

When you sign the declaration on the application form you are signing that the information you are providing is a true accurate and complete record of your circumstances ,income and capital. If the assessor then discovers transfers into an account you have not declared on your form this is not the case.

In answer to your other query about information regarding your accounts. No benefit assessors cannot check your account infomtation with the banks - they go off the information you provide. However, there are ways in which LA's are informed about undeclared capital.

mardatha

It's pretty low and nasty how many people like to stir it, and scare people. I've read more than a few posts in which they say things that aren't true just to cause worry. And then they hide under the "oh well you should always be honest" umbrella. It's one thing stating true known facts, but posting maliciousness isnt called for. One word to remember here --KARMA !

hippy-chicy

There was nothing untrue or malicious (towards the OP) in my comment I answered the question asked. I am certainly not stirring anything. As an assessor i think that i have a pretty good idea of the system and was simply offering advice. It you want to take offence at the answer provided then that is your perogative.

alwaysonthego_2

In my role as a CAB adviser I have seen clients who have had their savings discovered and have been made to pay the full amount of benefits back. It was either that or be prosecuted for fraud.

To Mardatha, I have seen nothing wrong in what Hippy-city has posted. Savings must be declared fully otherwise it is classed as fraud. The council and DWP are able to access bank details and you sign a declaration when you apply for benefits which states so.

To the op declare your savings and stop making excuses. This rule applys to everyone including you. Be thankful that the customer service at the council warned you about this, I can't believe you were considering complaining about her.

dizzydusty

The DWP do get data exchanges that inform them of bank accounts for customers that are claiming benefit. Its all above board and legal and is one of the ways that their fraud staff catch people claiming benefits with undeclared savings accounts.

Dont take offence at someone telling you, you need to include details of your savings, its part of the conditions of claiming as its a means tested benefit. Had they known about the account, but let you claim and then awarded the benefit on your claim details only, it could be looked on as entrapment on the councils part as they would have deliberately let you make your claim when they already knew you may not be entitled.

I don't agree with the way you were told right enough, there were probably way more subtle ways of putting it, but be thankful that you were given the chance to rectify this and thus avoid being investigated for fraud at a later date.

I realise you say you had forgotten about the account, and I don't doubt you, but believe me, this is a common excuse by people who are interviewed by fraud staff. Amazing how someone can forget that they have several thousands of pounds in an account (some times tens of thousands or more), and only just remember when an investigator shows them the evidence.:eek:

mardatha

Well we can all have our say in here eh ? me as well as you !

alwaysonthego_2

mardatha wrote: »

Well we can all have our say in here eh ? me as well as you !

This is not a discussion board, this is to help and give people information on benefits and you were not doing so. This board is not about helping people to commit fraud, which is what your post suggests when it was criticising a poster who was offering constructive advice. It is truely amazing that an individual does not want to listen to what is law and will kick off until someone tells them it is ok to commit fraud:rolleyes:

spankygoodtime

I'd hardly be so stupid as try to deliberately hide a bank savings account from which I had moved money into my current account. The evidence was on my current bank statement! As hippi-chicy said the officer dealing with my claim needed this information to process my claim and it is MY fault it has been delayed.

I also took in a PAYE wage slip which I had forgotten to include which had been asked for, which also shows up on my statement. I simply asked a member of counter staff to copy my savings statement and forgotten payslip and requested it be given to the officer handling my case and in return received a lecture on fraud. I consider only the officer dealing with my case has the right to do this in a private room and these comments should not been made to me in the public domain by someone else.

Lastly I'm posting on the internet about a subject that causes a bad reaction in many people - namely benefit fraud. I was expecting to get all sorts of replies and I got them but thanks for those who put some of what has happened into perspective and answered the questions I raised. It made me realise the benefit officer at least was doing her job.

spankygoodtime

I'd hardly be so stupid as try to deliberately hide a bank savings account from which I had moved money into my current account. The evidence was on my current bank statement! As hippi-chicy said the officer dealing with my claim needed this information to process my claim and it is MY fault it has been delayed.

I also took in a PAYE wage slip which I had forgotten to include which had been asked for, which also shows up on my statement. I simply asked a member of counter staff to copy my savings statement and forgotten payslip and requested it be given to the officer handling my case and in return received a lecture on fraud and how the officers can catch claimants doing this in public.

Lastly I'm posting on the internet about a subject that causes a bad reaction in many people - namely benefit fraud. I was expecting to get all sorts of replies and I got them but thanks to those who answered my questions on tracking software rather than attacking me.

spankygoodtime

I'd hardly be so stupid as try to deliberately hide a bank savings account from which I had moved money into my current account. The evidence was on my current bank statement! As hippi-chicy said the officer dealing with my claim needed this information to process my claim and it is MY fault it has been delayed.

I also took in a PAYE wage slip which I had forgotten to include which had been asked for, which also shows up on my statement. I simply asked a member of counter staff to copy my savings statement and forgotten payslip and requested it be given to the officer handling my case and in return received a lecture on fraud. I consider only the officer dealing with my case has the right to do this in a private room and these comments should not been made to me in the public domain by someone else.

Lastly I'm posting on the internet about a subject that causes a bad reaction in many people - namely benefit fraud. I was expecting to get all sorts of replies and I got them but thanks for those who put some of what has happened into perspective and answered the questions I raised. It made me realise the benefit officer at least was doing her job.