loft insulation and lights, advice needed

jonnysparks

as madjay and wonka say fire hoods are the way to go
incedently are all these lights on one circuit/ fuse
reason i ask is that is just under 10 amp of load and if your unlucky enough to have your lights wired in 1.0mm then thats pushing it a bit when you start covering the cables with insulation.
assuming that all 44 lamps are 50w gu10's

tododo

Always liked the look of these as you can insulate over the top but 44 wouldnt be a money saving option!!!

http://www.allaboutelectrics.co.uk/doc/12/vid/2447/AICO_THERMAL_LOFT_CAP.html

wonka

brig001 wrote: »

I am not keen on these lights for upstairs use (or anywhere in a bungalow...). They are never sealed and can't be, so when you insulate, the roof gets cooler, and warm moist air goes up from the rooms and condenses everywhere. This is particularly bad if they are in a bathroom. I think warnings should be put on the boxes for these things, or they should be banned being used below loft spaces. A house is supposed to be reasonably airtight to keep the heat in, and these obviously don't help.

If people just installed downlights and did nothing else, you would be right. And I guess lots of cowboys do what you say.

But if the job is done properly, then it's not an issue.

The job is done properly by sealing the downlights. tododo provides a link above to the perfect product that will assist the OP. I will reproduce the link again:
Thermal Loft Cap

silvercar

27col wrote: »

silvercar, I am having trouble getting to grips with 44 down lighters. If you are truly a Doubly Diehard Moneysaving Devotee, how does that square with money saving. Is this bungalow or a house?
Also, it seems to me that if you were serious about money saving you would have insulated your roof years ago. Have you considered reducing the wattage of the downlighters, this would be a good energy/money saver. I did that in my downlighters except where they were situated over where I do most of my reading. I have 25 downlighters situated in the lounge and the kitchen and I thought that that was a lot. I have them switched in groups of not more than 4, which allows a lot of flexibility.
If you tell me to mind my own business that's ok. no hard feelings if you do. It was the number 44 that sparked my comments.

The answer is easy, we bought the house 2 years ago and the lights were already fitted. The surveyor recommended that we increase the loft insulation, so when I saw that there were grants available I inquired.

There are a lot of rooms, so they are switched in groups, I think 6 is the largest group, but there are a few groups of 2.

Not checked individual wattages, but judging from the poor light I'd guess that most are weak halogens.

silvercar

Fire_Fox wrote: »

This is a serious issue, any bodges like plant pots or guttering and you completely negate your insurance policy. Getting the finished job signed off means nothing - if you have a house fire they could easily claim you added the guttering or plant pots at a later date. Plus all your documentary evidence will have gone up in smoke. People who suggest using bits of plastic guttering to enclose a light fitting are not experts. :mad:

I have a new-ish flat conversion (four years old) with 50W halogen lamps. We have had one light fitting burn out on two occasions, first the transformer melted then the wiring scorched as it was too close to the hot lamp. Luckily I have fire-retardent plasterboard, fire doors and a hard-wired smoke alarm, do you?

Assuming these are halogen spots, you'd be better of changing the bulbs for lower energy alternatives - a lot of which have coatings which are supposed to direct any heat downwards. In general lamps that are not designed to be enclosed should not be enclosed.

OK I'm not going to use anything now, keeping the sign off "clean" ad my insurance policy intact.

PasturesNew

I'm sure I saw some low energy downlighters somewhere *googles*

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Lighting_Downlights_Index/Downlights_Energy_Saving/index.html

There must be more/others out there.

silvercar

OK checked the lights.

4 of them are 40 watt R50s.

the rest are halogen GU5.3, I think 25 watt.

Does that make a difference?

Fire_Fox

GU5.3 = MR16s. Low energy replacements just don't seem to exist, unless you go down the LED route (expensive). I think you can also source 7W and 9W CFLs but these are are longer than a standard halogen lamp.

In terms of halogens ... Osram Decostar IRC and Philips Masterline ES only go as low as 20W I think: these give out as much light as a 35W lamp. I don't suppose they are much cooler than what you have at present.

You can also get 'Cool Fit' aluminium coated halogen lamps here
http://www.lampspecs.co.uk/Light-Bulbs-Tubes/Cool-Fit-10W-20W
But no real explanation of what they are suitable for. Probably best to e-mail a few lighting specialists.

silvercar

I don't really want to change any lights - the idea is to save money on my heating bills/ be a bit greener rather than spend money changing 44 light fittings!

These are all upstairs (house not bungalow) lights in bedrooms so they are not left on for hours on end.

Thanks to Fire fox's research it seems there is not much cooler stuff around, so it wouldn't be worth changing the bulbs until necessary.

The point of posting was to find out if there was a cheap way of protecting the lights from the insulation. It seems that any cheap ideas are unsafe, so I will do nothing and trust the experts. I can't be the first person to book loft insulation with ceiling lights.

Thanks again for all the info and no offence taken at my ignorance of lighting or the amount of lights/ rooms I have.

MrsE_2

fiddiwebb wrote: »

Would terracotta plant pots be suitable?

YES!

An architect gave me that as a tip;)