Tricks tenants get up to

poppy10_2

clutton wrote: »

i explained that as she was unable to give me a months notice, i would be claiming her deposit.

You can't do that. You have a duty to mitigate your losses by trying to re-let the property to someone else.

it makes me wonder why i am still in this business at all

For the money. You didn't take in this girl out of the kindness of your heart, you charged her the going rate and made her pay a deposit, it was a business transaction like any other.

mchale

clutton wrote: »

when LLs were able to keep their own deposits, i would have been able to retain the money and rely on the tenant taking me to court

now

i have had to write 3 statements for the DPS,
prepare a written statement
go to a solicitor
pay for a Statutory Declaration
now i have to photocopy the tenancy agreement,

and the end is still not in sight

s/he will no doubt want to invoke the Dispute Resolution Service

this is the second time a vindictive tenant has taken me through all these steps for reason at all

it makes me wonder why i am still in this business at all

A way I have found round the TDS which may help you:

Deposit required £450

Tenancy duration 12 months,

take no deposit, add £37.50 per month onto the rent, on your AST in the section "extra condtions" add the phrase or similar "upon completion of tenancy provided property is left in a clean & tidy condtion with no outstanding debts, £450 will be refunded upon vacant possesion" hope this helps.

Ladybird20

take no deposit, add £37.50 per month onto the rent, on your AST in the section "extra condtions" add the phrase or similar "upon completion of tenancy provided property is left in a clean & tidy condtion with no outstanding debts, £450 will be refunded upon vacant possesion" hope this helps.......
Thats a bloomin good idea has anybody done that????

franklee

clutton wrote: »

a week after the 6 months she phoned and said she was leaving in 3 days time as she had been offered a 3 bed house by the council and was leaving. i explained that as she was unable to give me a months notice, i would be claiming her deposit

As you serve section 21 notices requiring possession to all tenants as a matter of routine (Sword of Damocles) then I'm not at all sure you can ask for notice from the tenant leaving during a periodic tenancy. You have already given her notice and the notice period was presumably up at the end of the fixed term and as you know the notice remains valid even after all this time on a periodic tenancy. So it boils down to you asked her to leave and she left.

This is the way in which the Sword of Damocles can backfire on a landlord. As there was a S21 and that remains valid such that (as you know) you could have applied to court for possession at any time without giving any more notice then I think the other side of that coin is that the tenant can leave. You may get away with asking for payment in lieu of tenant's notice if she forgets the S21 was served, but if she gets any advice it will probably come to light. Actually I think it'll come to light when you photocopy the tenancy agreement as didn't you routinely put the S21 in there?

franklee

This is what I was referring to:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5815317&postcount=4

clutton wrote: »

yes, i do issue section 21s as part of my tenancy agreement, and i know you dont like that idea. All my tenants have been with me for a long time, and they know that they have a home for life as long as they dont mess me about - i'm in this business for the long haul.

But, on the rare occasion when you do need to get a "tenant-gone-bad" out - it does make it easier to have served a Section 21. One of my landlord's tenants, who started to act very unsociably, soon stopped when i explained the full implications of the Section 21 - she did not realise how quickly i could have had her out had i chosen to do so.

The only tenant i ever had to verbally persuade to leave (rather than me take her to court) was causing so much mayhem and noise in the street, that the local community would have been outraged had i had to wait another two months before issuing proceedings.

i think you have to take each situation individually.

N79

franklee wrote: »

This is what I was referring to:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=5815317&postcount=4

Franklee - that would be true if the T had left at the end of the notice period. However, the T stayed on past the end of the fixed period (by 10 days) thus creating a periodic tenancy. The LL accepted this. By doing so any S21 issued for the fixed period becomes invalid, hence the T would need to give 1 months notice as per the Housing Act.

I realise that you have no chance of seeing the money but there should be no reason why you could not seek the repayment of your costs assuming the DPS eventually finds in your favour.

N79

Clutton - I am sorry to hear of your problem. I can not see how either of the Ts lies would affect the distribution of the deposit. If the T can not show that they gave written notice then clearly the payment of rent for the one months notice is required (actually I believe that you can claim for 1 month plus 1 month minus 10 days but I suspect that you are too fair to try to do that).

Cheer up, remember all the nice Ts you have helped.

silvercar

Clutton, really annoying when tenants behave like this. Hopefully you will be able to relet quickly and then the deposit could be partly returned?

I think that tenants can sometimes have a basic misuderstanding of how things work. Mine asked last month if I would be renewing in the Summer. I said it depends how high the rent arrears were at that time (long story - in the process of getting council to pay direct...). Reply I got was that they needed to know urgently because they fancied new kitchen work tops, but would only spend the money if they could stay a while. Fine, but how come they have money for new work tops yet are behind with the rent, even though its mainly paid by HB??????

tbs624

poppy10 wrote: »

You can't do that. You have a duty to mitigate your losses by trying to re-let the property to someone else.

From a Tenancy deposit scheme adjudication:

"The Adjudicator found the Landlord was entitled to deduct £575.00 for 1 months rent in lieu of notice. The Tenants argument that his liability had ended at the expiry of the fixed term was not sustainable. A statutory periodic tenancy would follow and the tenant liable for 1 month’s rent."

Even if the LL did try to relet asap the tenant could reasonably be expected to pay the costs involved plus the balance of the rent payment until a new tenant moved in. You may also like to look at the commercial tenancy case of Reichman v Beveridge on mitigation of loss.

poppy10 wrote: »

For the money. You didn't take in this girl out of the kindness of your heart, you charged her the going rate and made her pay a deposit, it was a business transaction like any other.

...and, as such, each party has every right to expect that the other will fulfil their legal obligations. Not all LLs dealing with DSS tenants would be trotting off to hospitals to facilitate agreements, and let's remember that Clutton says that in this case she also waived her usual requirement for such tenants to have a guarantor.Some LLs do go that extra mile and for those who do maybe its understandable that when they get bitten on the bum it hurts more than usual and it generates a "rant" on here....

It's always interesting to hear how things are from both sides of the letting fence.

tbs624

mchale wrote: »

A way I have found round the TDS which may help you:

Deposit required £450

Tenancy duration 12 months,

take no deposit, add £37.50 per month onto the rent, on your AST in the section "extra condtions" add the phrase or similar "upon completion of tenancy provided property is left in a clean & tidy condtion with no outstanding debts, £450 will be refunded upon vacant possesion" hope this helps.

You may well come unstuck - if you dress this up as "rent" & then write into a contract that you may be paying back an amount at the end of the tenancy, your arrangement may be viewed an a deliberate attempt to circumvent the tenancy deposit law. That S21 which you thought would ensure that a troublesome tenant left may well prove to be invalid if your arrangement was held to still be a form of deposit.

Have a read of the RLA guidance on alternatives to tenancy deposits: