Standing charge or no standing charge?

babykitten

Eagle15 wrote: »

What about Ebico? They have no standing charges and no Tier system. It's one rate per Kwh regardless of how much you use.

I have not heard of Ebico but I'll look them up. I have made a spreadsheet now to calculate the costs, which allows a quick comparison for various usage profiles.

babykitten

HappyMJ wrote: »

Yes I think we all agree that Ebico is not good for high consumption users. It's great for those on a tight budget who are willing to cut consumption. Also fantastic for those with second properties only lived in for 6 months of the year.

On the question though it's up to you...it'll only be pennies difference in the end if you're a normal user. I go for "No standing charge" myself as there is only me in the house and I'm rarely there.

Well, I started another thread on the specific question of whether it was worthwhile to go NSC in summer and SC in winter. I didn't want to hijack this thread!

I was surprised to see that with my supplier, Atlantic, there were NO circumstances in which the SC tariff was cheaper. Even for massive, massive, unrealistic usage, the NSC came in cheaper, albeit being almost unmeasurable. Of course, you save a lot if your usage is very low indeed. So, I came to the conclusion that with my supplier everyone should be on NSC.

Cardew

babykitten wrote: »

I accept that there's no such thing as a free lunch but if you are a very low user it's not you MIGHT save, you WILL save and quite significantly, if usage is low enough.

All I meant was that by saying everyone pays a standing charge you will potentially confuse people. With my tariff, if I use zero gas or electricity for a quarter then I pay £0. There is no standing charge whatsoever. Of course, realistically, most people do not use such a low amount as to make massive savings. I use a low enough amount to make savings that are worthwhile but hardly worth writing home about.

I still pay NO standing charge though. I pay the EQUIVALENT of MOSTof the same amount as that standing charge however, through the higher cost of the units. I was not disputing this.

I totally agree that the scope is much better for saving with gas than electricity. Most people use more gas, unless they have electric heating and the tier limits are easier to undercut if you have a smaller house or good insulation. And as you rightly point out, heating is very seasonal. Electricity usage (if heating not electric) is much more consistent throughout the year.

My goodness we are getting down to semantics.

What I said was absolutely accurate.

If you read post #2(which you picked up on) it explains everything precisely.

I even explained how with my annex I gain by the tier method.

Even my subsequent post is accurate. i.e. As a very low user you MIGHT gain not WILL gain.

Using 126kWh in a quarter on the latest BG tariffs is by any standards a very low user - less than one sixth of the UK average - yet they will not gain by the Tier method. They will pay for the full allocation of 125 tier 1 units and 1 unit at Tier 2.

babykitten

HappyMJ wrote: »

Yes I think we all agree that Ebico is not good for high consumption users. It's great for those on a tight budget who are willing to cut consumption. Also fantastic for those with second properties only lived in for 6 months of the year.

On the question though it's up to you...it'll only be pennies difference in the end if you're a normal user. I go for "No standing charge" myself as there is only me in the house and I'm rarely there.

I've just calculated for Ebico and it's only pence cheaper on gas, but is around 10% cheaper for my electricity usage.

Thanks for the recommendation.

babykitten

Cardew wrote: »

My goodness we are getting down to semantics.

What I said was absolutely accurate.

If you read post #2(which you picked up on) it explains everything precisely.

I even explained how with my annex I gain by the tier method.

Even my subsequent post is accurate. i.e. As a very low user you MIGHT gain not WILL gain.

Using 126kWh in a quarter on the latest BG tariffs is by any standards a very low user - less than one sixth of the UK average - yet they will not gain by the Tier method. They will pay for the full allocation of 125 tier 1 units and 1 unit at Tier 2.

Look, all I said was that the statement "everyone pays a standing charge" would potentially confuse people. This statement is NOT true!

What you meant was (and I know you qualified the statement thus) that, in effect, almost everyone pays the EQUIVALENT AMOUNT of a standing charge because their usage patterns are such that that's the way it works out.

I was simply clarifying this slight ambiguity for those that would just read the statement "everybody pays a standing charge" and mistakenly believe that there is no such thing as a "no standing charge" tariff for electricity.

Edit: also, for the record, my tier 1 cut-off is 225, almost twice yours so much, much easier to benefit from the NSC tariff with my provider. The extreme example is somebody who uses 0 units of electricity in a quarter. They would pay absolutely zero, hence zero standing charge, by either method of collection.

Cardew

babykitten wrote: »

Edit: also, for the record, my tier 1 cut-off is 225, almost twice yours so much, much easier to benefit from the NSC tariff with my provider. The extreme example is somebody who uses 0 units of electricity in a quarter. They would pay absolutely zero, hence zero standing charge, by either method of collection.

For the record my Tier 1 allocation is also 225kWh per quarter. I am on an older fixed BG tariff.

However the later BG tariffs are 125kWh a quarter.

I was answering the OP's question, who gave no indication of their tariff, that is why I posted in general terms - not specific to your tariff or indeed mine!!

In fact a more extreme example is on my annex wher I can indeed use zero units in a quarter yet get the dual fuel discount applied to my electricity account. So despite paying nothing each quarter for years my credit balance increases.:T

ic

I've just switched, even though in the past year I've been away on business for two and a half months through winter, I saved nothing by being on a no standing charge tariff. So I've opted for a standing charge, just to have clearer billing that I can easily verify.

babykitten

Cardew wrote: »

For the record my Tier 1 allocation is also 225kWh per quarter. I am on an older fixed BG tariff.

However the later BG tariffs are 125kWh a quarter.

I was answering the OP's question, who gave no indication of their tariff, that is why I posted in general terms - not specific to your tariff or indeed mine!!

In fact a more extreme example is on my annex wher I can indeed use zero units in a quarter yet get the dual fuel discount applied to my electricity account. So despite paying nothing each quarter for years my credit balance increases.:T

OK, fair enough, but I was posting in general terms too, actually agreeing with you! I simply felt it was worth clarifying your initial sentence as I myself when reading it thought at first that I must be mistaken in thinking such a thing as NSC existed, because it went against my understanding.

My savings, according to my calculated examples, are quite modest with the NSC, but of course, my example quarter is just my annual cut into four, which is not realistic. Clearly I will have very low usage of gas in summer, which means the quarter or two around then could benefit quite handsomely from an NSC, while the winter quarters will be no worse off with the NSC, which was my initial concern (hence my other thread pondering if SC tariffs were cheaper for high usage that NSC)..

So I'm glad I went with the NSC tariff. And to boot, I now have a great wee spreadsheet that can make the calculations a lot easier the next time round meaning I won't have to rely on the comparison websites. I can't imagine that they would take into account summer vs winter usage in their calculations.

babykitten

ic wrote: »

I've just switched, even though in the past year I've been away on business for two and a half months through winter, I saved nothing by being on a no standing charge tariff. So I've opted for a standing charge, just to have clearer billing that I can easily verify.

Well, my 'research' today got me pondering other aspects of this. If, like me, you have online billing where you provide your own meter readings then you'd need to make regular readings (perhaps every month) to ensure that your usage was allocated to the correct quarter.

If you are only giving meter readings twice a year or something, then they could just be spreading the usage across multiples quarters so as to 'rob' you of empty periods in which to make the NSC gain. This could happen with both infrequent real readings from you, or estimated readings from them.

I must admit that I'm guilty of not doing th readings as often as I should. But it would seem that it is especially important, when on a NSC tariff, to do regular readings on in the summer months, so as to prevent them spreading your usage across the year.

I reckon that monthly direct debit also confuses the issue, because you are ENCOURAGED to spread out your cost over the year. Probably easiest way of ensuring you don't get your usage spread, is to go on to quarterly billing, with real readings generating all bills. There might be monthly DD discounts that you would lose out on though.

In short, be organised with your readings and do them monthly and they can't justify spreading your usage out over the year and thus denying you of NSC savings during summer months.

Cardew

You are making the assumption that they actually take notice of the readings we send them!!

I think for most people there is very little savings to be made on electricity as few will use less than their Tier 1 'slice'

Some people used to switch off their gas completely in the summer and heat water with the immersion - especially when Economy 7 was a more attractive proposition. Pilot lights can use a surprisingly high amount of gas.

It is to combat this that BG have decreased their Tier 1 allocation from1143 kWh per quarter to 670kWh(and increased the price of the tier 1 units to compensate) Also NPower introduced their infamous 'sculpting'(seasonal weighting) where the slice of tier 1 units in the summer is minimal.