FTB expectations too high?

IveSeenTheLight

the_ash_and_the_oak wrote: »

Although I concede renting is more expensive (comparatively) than in most western countries I still don't really think its that expensive when you factor in that it reduces in real terms each year as even though salary increases aren't particularly high in UK they are at least higher than rent increases (in London anyway)

It would appear that the UK spends the lowest amount on housing (including maintenance and utility bills) than the other 4 major European Countries although granted this table was from 2004

IveSeenTheLight wrote:

SandC

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Theres a hell of a lot of holier than thou in these posts?

I have never done all this. I have paid every debt I have owed, on time, each month, I go to work to pay my way, I have credit cards, but use them knowing I have to pay it off.

I don't have all that you are describing people to have? I'm still on 30k a year and find it immensly difficult, (actually impossible) to buy my own house, hence shared ownership.

I have a 90% mortgage, not a 100+, not living on interest free credit.

Neither do you speak for any of my friends my age, or indeed, any people my age at work. Were all struggling, and the way you see us, is far from what we are.

If that's the case it's unintentional, I was trying to emphasise that not all homeowners are all filled with doom and gloom at prices dropping because to many of us whether our houses are worth triple they were when we bought them isn't relevant and nor will drops in prices be unless we end up in negative equity and something goes wrong where we have to sell up.

Basically, and I have posted similarly previously, I am just advocating that big price reductions in houses are a good thing but that it will be difficult for many to accept that along with being able to buy a home they might well not be able to buy all the things to put in it so easily due to lending criteria etc.

neverdespairgirl

Really2 wrote: »

So i presume buy your answer your dad hast traded up in his lifetime.;)
I can understand you may have one relative who never, but trading up in the housing market is the norm. All my relatives have done it and I should imagine most home owners in the UK have.

My parents did, yes. 4 houses in 30 years of marriage. But neither sets of grandparents did, nor did either of my uncles. Nor did OH's uncle, grandparents, or parents. So one set of trader-uppers out of both mine and my OH's immediate family.

Really2

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

My parents did, yes. 4 houses in 30 years of marriage. But neither sets of grandparents did, nor did either of my uncles. Nor did OH's uncle, grandparents, or parents. So one set of trader-uppers out of both mine and my OH's immediate family.

I thoght you OH was from Israil? i am not sure what ownership is like in other country's

I think we are going a bit off track here home ownership as only been an option for most in the last 60 years- 70 years.

I am not sure why you try to pick fault with my statement ( I think I may have done somthing to upset you in the past as you seem to do it quiet a lot on my posts)
It's ture the majority of house owners do increase the size of their house as they get older (family etc) and possibly look to decrease during retirement?

mitchaa

My FTB home was a 4bed detached countyside affair so i do not need to climb the ladder, but i probably will do at some point.

I suppose it depends on what your income level is and where about in the country you are as to what your expectations should be.

So no real answer to this 1.

Graham_Devon

SandC wrote: »

If that's the case it's unintentional, I was trying to emphasise that not all homeowners are all filled with doom and gloom at prices dropping because to many of us whether our houses are worth triple they were when we bought them isn't relevant and nor will drops in prices be unless we end up in negative equity and something goes wrong where we have to sell up.

Basically, and I have posted similarly previously, I am just advocating that big price reductions in houses are a good thing but that it will be difficult for many to accept that along with being able to buy a home they might well not be able to buy all the things to put in it so easily due to lending criteria etc.

Yes, but this thread is about FTBs.

Theres a lot of us around that bought houses at high prices, only to find that not only did we buy them at real high prices (and all the advice was generally buy, no better way of doing it), but we now have everything...

- Falling prices (I am now in negative equity).
- High mortgages compared to generations before us
- Low inflation wage rises
- A !!!!!!ed economy.
- An eyewatering future tax bill

So not only do we have to pay the high mortgage payment, we also have to face facts that we cannot move unless we write a rather large cheque. We have to do that on wages that go up 2% a year, if that.

Now, of course, people could say you didnt have to buy, and this is true, but then we are back to the first point, all you FTB's can be happy renting, or buy a 1 bed flat....were alright jack, we had it all worse.

I get confused really. I don't know what people expect of us. They expect us to buy a 1 bed flat at often 5-8x income, or rent, but also call that home, and expect us to accept that because a microwave was £500 in the 1980's our parents were worse off. We also have to accept that people own their homes and it does not matter what the price is to them.

Of course, when we want a bit more than one bed houses / flats, were told were greedy and shouldn't be spending all our money on holidays flash cars and new furniture. Also, of course by that point, the price matters considerably to those who were saying it didnt matter to them, and they will accept the highest price.

It is quite difficult to accept all of the above, from someone sitting in their paid for house. Never will I see the types of price increases the generation before me has, those price increases that gave these people the ability to move.

If I do see those price increases, I will have lost so much on the house I have now, it will be like starting all over again as a FTB, but buying TWO houses...the one I owe on and the one I want to move to.

Sadly, there are many of us in this situation. It was hard getting to the house buying stage, and it was a proud moment to have finally got there. Now this. My generation will never get anywhere, the generation after may well do, and the generation before. But were stuck in the middle, paying the highest prices to have a roof over our heads and taking massive hits on our assets.

My parents made 380% on their house in 10 years. They bought in 1997, sold in 2007. Thanks to that, they are now mortgage free, with cash in the bank. Of course, they were saying the same things to me and my sister until a few weeks back...we had it hard, bricks is where the cash should be, etc etc, when they figured out both their children have been caught out, they decided to change their mind and stopped telling us their TV cost £300 in their day.

mbga9pgf

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Yes, but this thread is about FTBs.

Theres a lot of us around that bought houses at high prices, only to find that not only did we buy them at real high prices (and all the advice was generally buy, no better way of doing it), but we now have everything...

- Falling prices (I am now in negative equity).
- High mortgages compared to generations before us
- Low inflation wage rises
- A !!!!!!ed economy.
- An eyewatering future tax bill

So not only do we have to pay the high mortgage payment, we also have to face facts that we cannot move unless we write a rather large cheque. We have to do that on wages that go up 2% a year, if that.

Now, of course, people could say you didnt have to buy, and this is true, but then we are back to the first point, all you FTB's can be happy renting, or buy a 1 bed flat....were alright jack, we had it all worse.

I get confused really. I don't know what people expect of us. They expect us to buy a 1 bed flat at often 5-8x income, or rent, but also call that home, and expect us to accept that because a microwave was £500 in the 1980's our parents were worse off. We also have to accept that people own their homes and it does not matter what the price is to them.

Of course, when we want a bit more than one bed houses / flats, were told were greedy and shouldn't be spending all our money on holidays flash cars and new furniture. Also, of course by that point, the price matters considerably to those who were saying it didnt matter to them, and they will accept the highest price.

It is quite difficult to accept all of the above, from someone sitting in their paid for house. Never will I see the types of price increases the generation before me has, those price increases that gave these people the ability to move.

If I do see those price increases, I will have lost so much on the house I have now, it will be like starting all over again as a FTB, but buying TWO houses...the one I owe on and the one I want to move to.

Sadly, there are many of us in this situation. It was hard getting to the house buying stage, and it was a proud moment to have finally got there. Now this. My generation will never get anywhere, the generation after may well do, and the generation before. But were stuck in the middle, paying the highest prices to have a roof over our heads and taking massive hits on our assets.

My parents made 380% on their house in 10 years. They bought in 1997, sold in 2007. Thanks to that, they are now mortgage free, with cash in the bank. Of course, they were saying the same things to me and my sister until a few weeks back...we had it hard, bricks is where the cash should be, etc etc, when they figured out both their children have been caught out, they decided to change their mind and stopped telling us their TV cost £300 in their day.

:T:T:T:T:T

On the money!

SandC

I understand all that, we all do. Yes, this thread is about first time buyers.

This was not originally about who was or is worst off. Just about FTBs having high expectations in what they perceive they should have. Previous generations were brought into it to demonstrate that they may not have had to borrow 5x their salary to buy a place but they sure as hell didn't have much else in the coffers when they did.

Again, as has been said before, a lot of it is dependent upon where in the country you are, whether you are buying on your own or as a couple and the salaries involved.

There are areas where average earning young FTBs have never been able to buy. It was way before the boom that locals were priced out of villages, say. I couldn't buy something in the village my folks were in at the time I bought my property. So you bought what and where you could.

Granted, your situation is possibly the worst of any but it isn't the fault of current home owners or those who decided that it wasn't a good risk to borrow such large amounts against their salaries. I suppose you would say that's easy for me to say, but there are areas in the country where prices didn't go completely loopy because the local populace would never let it get that far. They weren't prepared to borrow to the hilt and they weren't prepared to pay even more silly prices than were being asked when they reached a high.

mbga9pgf

SandC wrote: »

I understand all that, we all do. Yes, this thread is about first time buyers.

This was not originally about who was or is worst off. Just about FTBs having high expectations in what they perceive they should have. Previous generations were brought into it to demonstrate that they may not have had to borrow 5x their salary to buy a place but they sure as hell didn't have much else in the coffers when they did.

Again, as has been said before, a lot of it is dependent upon where in the country you are, whether you are buying on your own or as a couple and the salaries involved.

There are areas where average earning young FTBs have never been able to buy. It was way before the boom that locals were priced out of villages, say. I couldn't buy something in the village my folks were in at the time I bought my property. So you bought what and where you could.

Granted, your situation is possibly the worst of any but it isn't the fault of current home owners or those who decided that it wasn't a good risk to borrow such large amounts against their salaries. I suppose you would say that's easy for me to say, but there are areas in the country where prices didn't go completely loopy because the local populace would never let it get that far. They weren't prepared to borrow to the hilt and they weren't prepared to pay even more silly prices than were being asked when they reached a high.

SandC, could you show me please a single area where price rises kept in line with wage inflation? Genuinely interested in your last point.

PasturesNew

Graham_Devon wrote: »

...

One of the major obstacles you were up against though is: couples with two incomes and couples with kids and top up benefits incomes and potentially two jobs or 1.5 jobs. Then, unfortunately, the grockles.... 2nd home owners, retirees from the big Smoke retiring to the country ... and all those TV programmes encouraging rich bugg4hs to come and live in Devon.

Also, because of holiday homes being a desirable choice/investment, there's not even much to rent. LLs can get over £1000/week for a holiday home in peak season, so they won't be letting to locals for £1000/month (especially as most locals wouldn't be able to afford £1000/month on their low wages).

So, in a way, you were forced into buying more than many others - as it was seen as "just affordable with a struggle", with the local economy operating differently to the rest of the country it was the only way you could guarantee a roof over your head without being messed about year in year out.

And ... it's a b4st4rd for all those reasons.

You're "lucky" in that you do have a good job with good pay (for the area) and are likely to be able to cling onto that income + you've got a bit of a sideline I think. So at least you're not working a cr4p job on £20k with no sideline. But it's certainly "not fair".